TWD 10x10 "Stalker" episode discussion... **SPOILERS**

[MinionZombie]

Please keep all talk of episode 10x10 "Stalker" specifically inside this thread. If you have a theory for a following episode, please use the "spoiler tags" (visit the HPOTD FAQ to find out how to use them if you don't already know). Similarly, if you're going to discuss plot points from the comic book, please use "spoiler tags" - not everyone is up-to-date on them, and some people don't read them at all. Enjoy! Directed by: Bronwen Hughes Written by: Jim Barnes Our group must defend Alexandria from a threatening, outside force.

[Moon Knight]

Beta is scary af! Def some classic horror in this one. Only took ten years for someone to rise from a grave on TWD. Lots of good bits sprinkled throughout. Perfect title for this episode.

[MinionZombie]

Beta is scary af! Def some classic horror in this one. Only took ten years for someone to rise from a grave on TWD. Lots of good bits sprinkled throughout. Perfect title for this episode. Yeah, Beta rising from Dante's grave was a very cool moment - although we've yet to see an actual zombie rise from a grave on this show (IIRC). Mind you, I'm not entirely sure of the logic of that - how did they dig a tunnel without anyone knowing? Did they plan on it coming up through Dante's fresh grave? How long is this tunnel? Still - cool shot. Beta infiltrating the houses was very creepy - especially that one shot where he blows out the candlelight in the background as those two guys are getting ready in the foreground. Your attention is totally in the foreground, and then all of a sudden out of total darkness - there's Beta's silhouette - and no sooner have you seen it than the flame has been extinguished. Similarly, that wide shot from outside another home as the occupants are slain was very chilling. These have been a couple of good but generally slow burn episodes, so hopefully things will ramp up both in terms of tension as well as action. Gabriel's got some proper darkness in him, too! He's come a long old way since we first met him.

[Moon Knight]

The tunnel is baffling. I have no idea how Dante or any other Whisperer could have created that without anyone spotting them. But yes, still very cool. Love how that one dweeb Alexandrian was bragging how the Whisperers don’t put on a fight one on one just as Beta emerges from the shadows behind them. Clever shot. Gabriel and Rosita are finally really coming together as a couple. It’s working. Also noticed how Rosita was listening in on Judith’s conversation with Mary. If anyone has a good sense of character, it’s Judith Grimes and Rosita knows that.

[MinionZombie]

See, now I was getting confused - I think on Talking Dead they talked about the grave, but I got the impression the grave was Dante's - but then I was thinking last night, hang on, why would they bury a traitor who murdered several of their own? So, yes, perhaps it was one that Dante constructed - but even then, surely people would notice a surprise new grave? Or, did Dante dig a secret tunnel whilst also burying one of the people he had poisoned? Surely it can't be Siddiq's grave, because his death was only a couple of days prior and Dante was killed soon thereafter ... plus, I don't think Siddiq would have a cross as his grave marker. Yes, the grave/tunnel thing is a bit confusing when you dig into the logic after the fact. A little more clarity about that would have been welcome. Evidently the tunnel only went so far as Beta had to emerge through the actual soil (loose soil) of the fresh grave.

[JDP]

Digging tunnels to bypass or undermine protective walls is an ancient military maneuver. It has been practiced for a very long time. Here is what might have happened: Dante digs a grave for someone who died. Dante obviously cannot dig the tunnel heading towards the outside since it would be too easy to discover what he's doing. So, what he does next is to give the location of this chosen grave to his colleagues outside. They then dig a tunnel under the wall and connect it to this grave. From here, they now have a secret access to Alexandria. Of course, the question now is: how did the Whisperers outside manage to guide their underground excavations so precisely as to hit the chosen grave? With something as long as a wall of a city or town, there's little problem: you just keep digging in its general direction. Sooner or later you will arrive to it. But for a smaller target like a grave this would be a more complicated matter. The reverse scenario (namely: the Whisperers dig a tunnel under the wall first, then tell Dante to build a grave to connect to it) is also as complicated, because it would require very precise information as to where Dante should dig the grave. He cannot go around digging graves left and right until he hits the tunnel, as that would certainly easily expose his activities. He only has one shot at connecting the tunnel with a grave.

[Moon Knight]

Solid points. MZ, didn’t they burn Dante or did I imagine that? I do watch kinda intoxicated most of the time.

[JDP]

Solid points. MZ, didn’t they burn Dante or did I imagine that? I do watch kinda intoxicated most of the time. Yes, they did. I think the grave is definitely someone else's. And the culprit who dug it is almost certainly Dante.

[Moon Knight]

I wonder just how many of the Whisperers knew about Dante. Considering Gamma, who became a lieutenant wasn’t even aware.

[MinionZombie]

Good points, JDP. It would have been nice to have had more knowledge about the how of that in the episode ... but I guess, at the same time, The Whisperers aren't the chattiest of people, and a clunky bit of "as you know..." exposition would have been worse. I wonder just how many of the Whisperers knew about Dante. Considering Gamma, who became a lieutenant wasn’t even aware. IIRC from 10a, Dante was very new to The Whisperers when he was sent out on his mission. I figure that it allowed Dante to blend in better, rather than the weirdo cult freaks that the rest of them are (who'd all probably give themselves away with their proper weirdness). Dante's personality really had everyone (us included) fooled. So The Whisperers in generally would only know as much as Alpha would have told them, which could have been nothing. I don't recall how long he'd been a member, but it wasn't long.

[Neil]

If you've gone to all the trouble to build an epic tunnel like that, send a dozen folks in with a bunch of petrol bombs? That might have quite an effect?

[Moon Knight]

If you've gone to all the trouble to build an epic tunnel like that, send a dozen folks in with a bunch of petrol bombs? That might have quite an effect? Gonna have to file that under the department of disbelief.

[MinionZombie]

Okay - did anyone else not fully get that Laura had been killed off until they watched Talking Dead? It was kind of unclear what had happened to her. I know that Beta picked her up, swung her aggressively, and there was a clunk (which was supposed to be her head hitting the cell bars), but it wasn't clear (to me at least) that she'd been snuffed. Perhaps we'll see her come back as a walker? But then again if she died by head trauma that's unlikely - so maybe someone will find her body in the next episode? The fight scene between her and Beta was cool albeit brief (it would have been even briefer apparently, but Ryan Hurst - who plays Beta - said Laura should fight back more, hence jumping on his back). If you've gone to all the trouble to build an epic tunnel like that, send a dozen folks in with a bunch of petrol bombs? That might have quite an effect? Gonna have to file that under the department of disbelief. Mmmm ... that's not really The Whisperers' M.O., though - plus we've already had Alexandria burning (in season 8), so it'd be a bit samey - and - where would they get the fuel from? They're about infiltration and the war has been gradually getting ramped up (the preview for next episode looks sweet!)

[Moon Knight]

Yep. I didn’t know until Talking Dead confirmed. I assumed she survived. That was a weak death; even for a minor character like Laura. She’s been around since season 7 and the last of the Alexandria Saviors. Character should have been ripped in half. Hey, it’s Beta I would have believed it, haha. So we get the Hilltop fight next week?

[MinionZombie]

Yep. I didn’t know until Talking Dead confirmed. I assumed she survived. That was a weak death; even for a minor character like Laura. She’s been around since season 7 and the last of the Alexandria Saviors. Character should have been ripped in half. Hey, it’s Beta I would have believed it, haha. So we get the Hilltop fight next week? 1) Yeah, they could have shot/edited Laura's death a bit differently just to make sure it was clear she was dead. I know we get a little shot as she's lying motionless - but she could have just been knocked out cold rather than dead. To see much clearer head trauma and rapidly spilling blood would have been clearer - perhaps even a close up of her eyes open and not moving at all. It was kinda murky in there, which is understandable, but that's all the more reason to make her death as clear as possible. The actual kill strike is barely even in the frame - they're in the shot which shows where her body lies, but the actual strike seems to be above the frame (therefore out of shot), and the point at which that occurs is therefore not naturally where the eye is looking, so (despite some blood droplets on the concrete), it's very easy to be left unclear as to her fate. I know it'd be tricky to pull off a convincing 'head strikes cell bars' shot in that context (Beta holding her like a battering ram), but still - with the dark lighting and the choice of framing and editing it was very tricky to know what had happened for sure. 2) Errr, I don't know. The preview clip I'm referencing takes place at Alexandria.