Ben’s Peculiar Thought Process

[Philly_SWAT]

The whole basement strategy vs. boarding up strategy vs. going to 2nd floor/attic strategy has been discussed for years on this board. However, something that I was thinking about recently I don’t think that I have ever seen discussed (although I admit my memory could be bad!) hence my reason for posting this thread. In NOTLD, Ben is shown in an overall positive light IMO. He seems reasonably intelligent, he is definitely a man of action, makes quick decisions, and does not seem to shy away at assuming a leadership role within a group of strangers that just met. At first glance, he appears to be someone that you would want to be holed up with in a zombie crisis. But I have to wonder…why did he not even consider the basement strategy? Or for that matter, even consider that the idea did have merit, even if he didn’t think of it on his own? Down here in Florida, it is rare that a house has a basement. A lot of the homes up north that I have seen do have basements…so much so that I would think the natural assumption would be to think that a two-story house did have one as opposed to not having one. Yet, Ben never even looks to find a basement…to see how secure the entrance to said basement is…to see what type of tools and boards are in the basement…to see if there are any people in the basement. I realize that he was scared and freaked out (even though he was not letting that affect his actions) and maybe looking for a basement might not have been on his mind at first, but not at all, the whole time he is boarding up the place and looking for supplies? I know the basement door as shown in the movie was covered by a door in the house, however, if Ben had actually looked for the basement, he would have obviously found the door. He tells Cooper that the cellar would be a good fall back position…huh?!? So to Ben’s way of thinking, the cellar is a “deathtrap”, but it is a good fallback position in case the interior of the house is breeched? Now don’t get me wrong, I understand that if the interior of the house is NOT breeched, there is no need to cower in the basement, if for no other reason that it would be more comfortable and roomy to be in the main house, and you would have access to the plumbing. But if the house IS breeched, there would be no time to move supplies, radio, TV, etc. into the basement. Ben’s whole line of thinking was very flawed. If the cellar is a deathtrap as he says, there is no need to ever go down there. If it is a good fallback position, then it is obvious that supplies need to be moved there BEFORE it becomes necessary to fall back. There would be no harm in moving something down there…it could easily be brought back up if needed. So, was Ben not as competent as initially shown to be? Was he so arrogant and “anti-Cooper” that he would not acknowledge anything Cooper said because Cooper was acting like such an ass clown? Ben seemed like a survivor…would he purposely ignore information that could increase his chance of survival just because he was in a pissing contest with Cooper? Did he steal tips intended for the waitress at Beekman’s diner? (OK that was thrown in for humor ) And on a similar topic, it seems incredibly stupid that the Coopers, Tom and Judy thought going down there and closing the door while they were in no immediately danger, therefore depriving themselves of water and more importantly, INFORMATION. And yes, I know it’s a movie ,but from a logic standpoint…what are your thoughts and/or explanations?

[JDFP]

This is going to be a wicked epic thread, right up there with: "Was Harry Cooper a racist?" (the guy that started that thread was brilliant as well), and "Lock the Door, Idiots!". Thanks, Philly, for posting this. There's so many different "What if's" that could be discussed here and considered. What if Mr Cooper hadn't acted in the manner he did and had been more rational? Someone else mentioned in the "Is Harry Cooper a racist?" thread that even though he probably wasn't inherently a racist, Ben probably took his attitude and statements towards him as being racially motivated ("Here's yet another white guy telling me what to do," someone in that thread mentioned). I think that if Harry Cooper had approached Ben and said: "Look, we should consider the cellar and probably go down there, and this is why... etc. etc." there could have been a possibility that not everyone that evening would have died, but the relationship of understanding/appreciation was blown from the very beginning by Harry's stampeding. I don't think it could have been much worse for Ben if Harry had started referring to him as "boy". But, to answer your question: I think that the moment Ben believed Harry's attack to be racially motivated then he lost any respect or appreciation for anything Harry would have said. If Harry had said: "Hey, we have a car outside that we can take" I think Ben would have argued with him that they should take his pickup truck instead just for the sake of the hatred between the two men and to be argumentative about being RIGHT. It was a pissing contest. This is part of the reason, for me (I think Dubious would probably agree, as he is the expert on the film around here) that NOTLD holds up so well: The characters are so damned real in their actions/flaws. In real life in the situation of a crisis the most fundamental elements of us as people come up, whether good or bad. Even with the crumbling situation, environment, around them, the hatred between Ben/Harry was about who was RIGHT (and damn the consequences) -- it's alpha-male psychology. Put any group of men in the same room and you're going to have at least two conflicting/dominant personalities that will battle it out while the rest of the group is split between allegiances/alignments. I never really liked Ben or Harry, personally. I can understand them as characters though because they are realistic in their actions. I gravitate more towards Harry because the man may be an absolute jerk, but what we know is that he is there by his family and is genuinely concerned about their welfare. Ben, well, Ben is so consumed by his anger and hatred towards Cooper that he can't see any other course but his own and won't even consider any other possibilities. If I was personally there, I wouldn't want to be around any of them -- I'd probably go upstairs and sit out on an upstairs window ledge, looking at the ghouls below, smoking cigarettes and would have raided the 'fridge for all the beer in it while waiting for everyone else to figure out what they wanted to do. I've always been a lone person like that, I prefer to keep to myself and stay away from the foolish/idiotic masses of people. Rule # 1 for me in any Zombie Apocalypse: Get as far away from people as possible in this type of situation. People and their issues are a much greater danger/threat than the ghouls (at least at first). NOTLD is an example of this. If people can't stand together, which often times they cannot in situations of crisis or even in regular situations, it can lead to everyone getting killed. The beast is born in Bethlehem, the center doesn't hold, it's our time come around at last, and all that jazz... j.p.

[Mike70]

T I never really liked Ben or Harry, personally. I can understand them as characters though because they are realistic in their actions. I gravitate more towards Harry because the man may be an absolute jerk, but what we know is that he is there by his family and is genuinely concerned about their welfare. Ben, well, Ben is so consumed by his anger and hatred towards Cooper that he can't see any other course but his own and won't even consider any other possibilities. If I was personally there, I wouldn't want to be around any of them -- I'd probably go upstairs and sit out on an upstairs window ledge, looking at the ghouls below, smoking cigarettes and would have raided the 'fridge for all the beer in it while waiting for everyone else to figure out what they wanted to do. I've always been a lone person like that, I prefer to keep to myself and stay away from the foolish/idiotic masses of people. Rule # 1 for me in any Zombie Apocalypse: Get as far away from people as possible in this type of situation. People and their issues are a much greater danger/threat than the ghouls (at least at first). NOTLD is an example of this. If people can't stand together, which often times they cannot in situations of crisis or even in regular situations, it can lead to everyone getting killed. The beast is born in Bethlehem, the center doesn't hold, it's our time come around at last, and all that jazz... j.p. by spock's beard! this pretty much what i was going to say. i fucking despise people who fancy themselves as "leaders." as for choosing sides, this is something that i refuse to do in real life. i'm not on anybody's "side." i am totally concerned with what is best for me. if the group decides something that i think is totally fucking whack, i will not cooperate and will strike off on my own - regardless of the consequences. "follower" is about the filthiest thing that i can think of to call somebody. i would not have stayed in that farm for any longer than it took to find weapons, ammo and some canned food. after that, i'd be gone out in the countryside, where you have room to maneuver and aren't trapped in one place. sorry about cooper's kid but that wouldn't be my problem, it'd be his.

[Trin]

I don't think Ben knew the basement was there prior to Cooper coming out of it. He checked out the rest of the house and he looked all over for supplies. The little door was simply overlooked and he never thought about there being a basement. I don't think he ignored it on purpose. The point may be a wee bit contrived by Romero too since his whole script relied on Ben missing the basement. I also don't think he discounted the basement because it was Cooper's idea. Ben's whole survival strategy was predicated on mobility. He knew they could outrun them in the open better than fight them in a confined space. The basement *was* the worst choice for him. I don't think Tom or Judy would've convinced him either. It wasn't racial or personal. I believe that if Ben had to choose between the basement or abandoning the house he would've abandoned the house. It was simply bad luck and Cooper's treachery that he got cornered inside and had to flee downstairs. And finally, people tend to review Night from the perspective of a zombie apocalypse given a trilogy of movies spanning months into the crisis. Ben was seeing things from the perspective of the first night. Stop acting like he should've planned for the long haul. If the power goes out in your house do you immediately start chopping down trees in the backyard to stock up for the winter? Or do you wait a few hours and see what happens? The power might come back on at any time. If the power is still not on in the morning maybe you start thinking of what to do. It would be unimaginable to think the power would be out forever. I think the people in Night were in that mode. They didn't imagine the crisis would last months, or even days. They were working from the perspective that they just had to survive a short time.

[SRP76]

There was no need to mess around with a basement. The goal wasn't to die in that house, it was to hold out until they could run away. In the basement, you cannot get out, which defeats the whole purpose of escaping. Also, when not in immediate danger, nobody wants to lock themselves up someplace where they can't see the enemy. Upstairs, they can keep an eye on the zombies, to be able to see an attack coming and to see an opening for escape. If you're already in a position that suits your needs, there's really no reason to go looking for a place that does not.

[MoonSylver]

He tells Cooper that the cellar would be a good fall back position…huh?!? So to Ben’s way of thinking, the cellar is a “deathtrap”, but it is a good fallback position in case the interior of the house is breeched? As Tom says when he is swayed to Ben's way of thinking "IF we have to". That seems Ben's position to me:"Not my first choice, but if Plan A goes to hell it's better than nothing..." If Harry had said: "Hey, we have a car outside that we can take" I think Ben would have argued with him that they should take his pickup truck instead just for the sake of the hatred between the two men and to be argumentative about being RIGHT. It was a pissing contest. Eh...don't know if I'd go THAT far. I don't think he's THAT unreasonable. Harry either for that matter. They do show SOME ability to work together, as in when Harry volunteers that there is a set of keys in the basement, or goes upstairs to throw the molotov's. But there IS definitely a rivalry between the two, which DOES get worse as things happen & the situation worsens (especially in the 90 version...) by spock's beard! this pretty much what i was going to say. And finally, people tend to review Night from the perspective of a zombie apocalypse given a trilogy of movies spanning months into the crisis. Ben was seeing things from the perspective of the first night. Stop acting like he should've planned for the long haul. If the power goes out in your house do you immediately start chopping down trees in the backyard to stock up for the winter? Or do you wait a few hours and see what happens? The power might come back on at any time. If the power is still not on in the morning maybe you start thinking of what to do. It would be unimaginable to think the power would be out forever. I think the people in Night were in that mode. They didn't imagine the crisis would last months, or even days. They were working from the perspective that they just had to survive a short time. Trin for the win. This is a VERY good point!

[Philly_SWAT]

I don't think Ben knew the basement was there prior to Cooper coming out of it. He checked out the rest of the house and he looked all over for supplies. The little door was simply overlooked and he never thought about there being a basement. I don't think he ignored it on purpose. The point may be a wee bit contrived by Romero too since his whole script relied on Ben missing the basement. Agree on the contrivance. I also don't think he discounted the basement because it was Cooper's idea. Ben's whole survival strategy was predicated on mobility. He knew they could outrun them in the open better than fight them in a confined space. The basement *was* the worst choice for him. I don't think Tom or Judy would've convinced him either. It wasn't racial or personal. I agree that it wasnt racial, not 100% sure it wasnt somewhat personal. I believe that if Ben had to choose between the basement or abandoning the house he would've abandoned the house. It was simply bad luck and Cooper's treachery that he got cornered inside and had to flee downstairs. Didn't Ben specifically talk about using the cellar as a fallback position? And finally, people tend to review Night from the perspective of a zombie apocalypse given a trilogy of movies spanning months into the crisis. Ben was seeing things from the perspective of the first night. Stop acting like he should've planned for the long haul. If the power goes out in your house do you immediately start chopping down trees in the backyard to stock up for the winter? Or do you wait a few hours and see what happens? The power might come back on at any time. If the power is still not on in the morning maybe you start thinking of what to do. It would be unimaginable to think the power would be out forever. Using your "power outage" analogy... if you saw a couple of people outside your house that you had reason to believe wanted to cause you harm, but you knew from recent experience that in a hand to hand situation you could easily kill them, would you immediately start tearing boards from the house, breaking expensive dining tables, etc. to board the windows, or would you wait a few hours and see what happens? Especially AFTER you found a gun? Until the very end of the movie, the ghouls do not ever get close to the house much at all, just once I think, when the hand grabs thru the window. I think the people in Night were in that mode. They didn't imagine the crisis would last months, or even days. They were working from the perspective that they just had to survive a short time. I would think that from a short term survival aspect, the easiest thing to do would be to go into the basement. There was no need to mess around with a basement. The goal wasn't to die in that house, it was to hold out until they could run away. If they wanted to run away, they could have done that immediately.

[MoonSylver]

If they wanted to run away, they could have done that immediately. But THEY didn't think they could, what with Karen being bitten & Barbra being out of it & all.

[FoodFight]

I agree with the mobility issue. From his description of the events at Beekmans' we see that he was (presumably) on foot when the crisis began and consequently stole a truck (to get outta Dodge). One of the first things he says to Barbara is that the truck is almost out of gas and and that he is aware of the locked pump (still thinking of escape, as opposed to barricading). With Barbara in a state of shock and few other options remaining, he boards up the house. Once the remaining characters appear he formulates a previously untenable plan to refuel the truck (and therefore hit the road again). Besides, it was so hot that night that a cool breeze from a country drive would have been refreshing. At the time he arrived, he could have dealt with the few zombies outside and had a go at refuelling, but the presence of Barbara changed all of that. He gives her simple tasks to complete, speaks to her to keep her involved, and is generally upbeat in his dealings with her. He is now her de facto defender and the key to her survival. It puts Ben in an even better light that he stays with a defenseless woman instead of setting out alone and this act of humanity is handsomely repaid at movies' end (insert sarcastic face here).

[sandrock74]

One thing I'd like to point out Philly is that moving stuff into the basement, like the television and radio would have been a useless gesture back in the 60's. Remember, they wouldn't have gotten ANY reception for either device while holed up in the basement! By fighting for control of the "main house", not only could they keep their eye on the zombies outside, they could also monitor the tv and radio broadcasts. The basement took that away from them. Information is key! They all needed the radio and/or television to help them make informed decisions (ideally speaking). Heck, they didn't even forulate the plan to go to Willard until they saw news of a rescue station being there on a tv newscast. I had always assumed that was a part of what Ben meant when he called the basement a "deathtrap". Going down there and sealing oneself in was inviting a media blackout and depriving oneself of observing the enemy movement outside your door. You'd have no clue what was happening upstairs and outside. It's not like checking for a fire where you'd feel the door to see if it was warm, if it is then keep it closed. You could listen through the door, hear nothing and open it to a room full of zombies staring at you! That's just my two cents.

[rongravy]

Man, if this happened, I'd be a ballbat swinging mofo. As far as Ben, he didn't wanna barracade hisself up in the basement, that's all there is to it. He didn't wanna be anywhere that didn't have another option. I can't blame him for it, but I would've at least checked it out and got it ready for whatever. Then again, I'd opt for the attic. There would be a huge pile of bodies underneath the entrance, to be sure. The only thing I wonder about is how my psyche would handle the initial shock of my reality being turned upside down. After I got over that, I'd be right as rain and a harbinger of doom for anything that shambles... My worst problem would be stretching out enough to lay the wood to whoever.

[Philly_SWAT]

One thing I'd like to point out Philly is that moving stuff into the basement, like the television and radio would have been a useless gesture back in the 60's. Remember, they wouldn't have gotten ANY reception for either device while holed up in the basement! By fighting for control of the "main house", not only could they keep their eye on the zombies outside, they could also monitor the tv and radio broadcasts. The basement took that away from them. Information is key! They all needed the radio and/or television to help them make informed decisions (ideally speaking). Heck, they didn't even forulate the plan to go to Willard until they saw news of a rescue station being there on a tv newscast. I realize that information is key, that is why I capitalized the word in my original post! I am not convinced of the "no reception in the basement" argument. In Night68, we do not see them attempt to use a radio or tv in the basement, so we dont know if it would work or not. So what is the next closet thing we can use to determine this? Well, how about Night90? Towards the end of the movie when Ben is downstairs, he LISTENS TO THE RADIO! And even if it is true that there was no reception, other supplies could still have been brought down there. Like I said, it would be dumb to go down there while the interior of the house has not been breeched, so you could still listen to the tv/radio before you went down. I had always assumed that was a part of what Ben meant when he called the basement a "deathtrap". Going down there and sealing oneself in was inviting a media blackout and depriving oneself of observing the enemy movement outside your door. You'd have no clue what was happening upstairs and outside. It's not like checking for a fire where you'd feel the door to see if it was warm, if it is then keep it closed. You could listen through the door, hear nothing and open it to a room full of zombies staring at you! It still makes no sense to use a self-proclaimed 'deathtrap' as a fallback position. My worst problem would be stretching out enough to lay the wood to whoever. LMFAO!!

[kortick]

i dunno... i think it was more that u had 2 people who both seemed to need to prove they knew better. if they werent fighting over the basement then it was or would have been something else.

[DubiousComforts]

Although not expressly shown, we have no idea if Ben perhaps tried the cellar door, found it locked and simply moved on. He has obviously sized-up the situation regarding the farmhouse's first floor and upstairs because as he secures the windows and doors, he explains to Barbara the option of boarding themselves in the living room as a last resort. The consideration of the cellar at this point is unimportant, so its not shown. In comparison, it's more important to the story that a gun be located and a good deal of screen time is dedicated to it's discovery, not to mention the inclusion of trophy heads on the wall to demonstrate the likelihood of finding a hunting rifle. As pointed out in prior discussions regarding NIGHT, the characters' actions and motivations, even the layout of the farmhouse itself, have been structured to support the story and not the other way around. The story dictates that a group of people is to be found hiding in the cellar which leads to an argument over the best course of action in dealing with their situation, and so the film's characters are drawn to suit that purpose, at least as much as is reasonable for their actions to be believable. It's not important who is shown in a positive light so much as the characters be unable to unify in their efforts to survive.

[Philly_SWAT]

Although not expressly shown, we have no idea if Ben perhaps tried the cellar door, found it locked and simply moved on. He has obviously sized-up the situation regarding the farmhouse's first floor and upstairs because as he secures the windows and doors, he explains to Barbara the option of boarding themselves in the living room as a last resort. The consideration of the cellar at this point is unimportant, so its not shown. In comparison, it's more important to the story that a gun be located and a good deal of screen time is dedicated to it's discovery, not to mention the inclusion of trophy heads on the wall to demonstrate the likelihood of finding a hunting rifle. As pointed out in prior discussions regarding NIGHT, the characters' actions and motivations, even the layout of the farmhouse itself, have been structured to support the story and not the other way around. The story dictates that a group of people is to be found hiding in the cellar which leads to an argument over the best course of action in dealing with their situation, and so the film's characters are drawn to suit that purpose, at least as much as is reasonable for their actions to be believable. It's not important who is shown in a positive light so much as the characters be unable to unify in their efforts to survive. This is the "right" answer, however, not as fun for discussion when pointed out!