Gar and the intelligent Zombie debate

[darth los]

So i'm getting ready for school on saturday morning and there's a fantasy football commercial on ESPN and it featured one of the most annoying characters in recent memory, The Geico Caveman. Why do they keep doing this? Why do they insist on shoving this crappy idea down our throats. I mean the guys sucks, deal with it and move on already. They're not funny and are an eyesore. Unfortunately, this is what usually happens in pop culture. They try to tell us what's cool, what's beautiful and what's acceptably mainstream. They're like "don't you get it!?!...this is really cool...you really like this". So i start thinking about what that reminds me of. Oh wait a minute. That's what GAR is doing wth his intelligent zombie idea. He's trying to ram it down our throats and many of us are spitting it back up. Now, before the posts pop up about it being "his vision, his money, he can do what he wants", I concede that point as i do to the Geico dudes. There's no denying that, so that won't be a very constructive debate. However, Just like them it doesn't mean it's a good idea. There have been other threads about land and about how the intelligent zombies play in that film and in the series, so instead let's focus mainly on them minus the films. How high an intelligence is just right for a ghoul to exhibit? Is it really the best thing for the zombie genre? We don't like to criticize him because he's the master and even though some of us might not like the idea we accept it because it's him. Imo, he's tainting his legacy with each of these succesive attempts at the idea. Also, contrary to as some have argued, the wants of the fans ARE relavent and can't be totally discounted. What is he, Dick Cheney now? Guy: Gar, alot of fans aren't feeling this Gar: So? Artists in large part owe their success to the fans who dug their work in the first place. Without us geeking out over his original vision he wouldn't be where he is today.To totally discount what the fans want is kind of a slap in the face. And artist or not if you don't have a market for your work you will soon be irrelevant and OUT of work. So is it a good idea? Why or why not? Do you feel it's being forced on us?

[DubiousComforts]

And artist or not if you don't have a market for your work you will soon be irrelevant and OUT of work. That's not anyone's business but the artist's, no? You don't see Romero making psuedo-documentaries like Heckler in order to whine about being misunderstood by his critics and he has had more than his share in the past 40 years. Back in 1969, NIGHT was considered the fall of decency and good taste. If you don't like George Romero's films or message, don't watch them. They are very easy to avoid. Romero is just one guy. Comparing him to Geico's advertising or the latest American Idle-manufactured megastar is irrelevant because there is no hiding from that type of market saturation. In my experience, whether it be music, film or most any medium, the fans have the absolutely worst ideas and it's best that no artist listen to them.

[EvilNed]

While I have to admit that I prefer my zombies brainless and working on instinct (scarier that way), I do very, very much like the way Romero has handled the intelligent zombies in his films. I don't mind Big Daddy. There are flaws with Land, but Big Daddy ain't one of em'. I like that film. Diary I didn't like, and that's the first one to show just mindless, brainless zombies... So, well, there ya go. I don't see a connection. But I do agree with DC. GAR should do his thing. Because the minute he starts doing what others want, he stops being interesting. At least to me.

[Bub666]

While I have to admit that I prefer my zombies brainless and working on instinct (scarier that way), I do very, very much like the way Romero has handled the intelligent zombies in his films. I don't mind Big Daddy. There are flaws with Land, but Big Daddy ain't one of em'. I like that film. I agree,I like the intelligent zombies in Romero's films.

[capncnut]

I do very, very much like the way Romero has handled the intelligent zombies in his films. I don't mind Big Daddy. There are flaws with Land, but Big Daddy ain't one of em'. I like that film. I really enjoyed the intelligent zombies in Land and thought it was a natural progression but I'm not a Big Daddy fan in the slightest. He said "RARRRGGGHHH!!!" way too much for my liking and was just annoying all-round. Diary I didn't like, and that's the first one to show just mindless, brainless zombies... That on top of a million other flaws, quite agree.

[bassman]

I really don't see how he's cramming it down our throats. You've got Bub and Big Daddy as the only two with any large signs of intelligence. While I like both, Bub seems to be welcomed by most fans. So the only one that could feel forced is BD.... So for two movies, two characters, and almost 20 years apart....I don't see the cramming.

[Bub666]

Think you got to have inteligent zombies.It's called evolution.Sooner or later the zombies will evolve,and become smarter.

[sandrock74]

Think you got to have inteligent zombies.It's called evolution.Sooner or later the zombies will evolve,and become smarter. Huh? A lifeform that is LIVING and THRIVING will evolve. Zombies are the complete opposite. They are dead and decomposing as they shamble about. I really can't accept that something with a rotting brain will evolve. How can it? It's brain is in a state of decomposition!

[Mike70]

i am not against zombies showing some intelligence per se. i think that like people some would be "smarter" than others. maybe they've retained a bit more of their old lives and knowledge from life. maybe the longer a person is a zombie they gradually "remember" more and more things from when they were alive. logan does say in day that decomposition slows upon revival, so they just might be able to recover some things. i think it would only go so far. how far is anyone guess but i don't foresee holding a conversation about "winter light" by bergman with a zombie.

[darth los]

All very good points. I didn't start this to really go one way or another, just to get a debate going. Your opinion is your opinion. It beats talking about the same things over and over. Now, if it's not the intelligent zombie angle then it's something else. But one thing is for sure. The quality of the dead films are declining and something has to be responsible for it. That's the general consensus here, there's no denying that. Even the biggest Land Lovers ( no pun intended ) have conceded that Land is below the first three and diary is definitely behind land. Why?

[RustyHicks]

I really enjoyed GAR's Trilogy, they were classic and the zombies in it were just scary in the way they were mindless and bent on one thing...Getting food. In Day, I didn't mind Bub, he was great and it was a slow proccess to show the zombies could develop some working development in the smarts department. The first sign of GAR doing this was with Dawn when Stephen knew enough to go up to the hidding place when he was a zombie. With Bub, he wasn't developing smarts he was using his memory of what life had been like before he turned. Land I don't know, it seemed to fast, too rushed that these zombies are getting smart. If they had done a movie showing the slow process maybe I could have warmed up to the idea a little more. Personally though I like my zombies slow and stupid. More fun that way

[darth los]

I really enjoyed GAR's Trilogy, they were classic and the zombies in it were just scary in the way they were mindless and bent on one thing...Getting food. In Day, I didn't mind Bub, he was great and it was a slow proccess to show the zombies could develop some working development in the smarts department. The first sign of GAR doing this was with Dawn when Stephen knew enough to go up to the hidding place when he was a zombie. With Bub, he wasn't developing smarts he was using his memory of what life had been like before he turned. Land I don't know, it seemed to fast, too rushed that these zombies are getting smart. If they had done a movie showing the slow process maybe I could have warmed up to the idea a little more. Personally though I like my zombies slow and stupid. More fun that way That's also a side effect of the intelligence... Not being scary. Something that can be reasoned with and has reasons for doing things just aren't as frightening. No matter where you stand on this issue there's no doubt that the more recent films just aren't as scary as the previous ones.

[Staredge]

The quality of the dead films are declining and something has to be responsible for it. That's the general consensus here, there's no denying that. Even the biggest Land Lovers ( no pun intended ) have conceded that Land is below the first three and diary is definitely behind land. Why? The first three were new. They hadn't been done before, and the horror genre in general was VERY unsophisticated. In the interim between Day and Land, the genre exploded. Special effects got huge, money went into writing decent storylines, the creativity level jumped. I'm not sure how popular post-apocalyptic stories were when the first three came out, but certainly it's been done to death now. (pun also unintended) (please don't jump me about the classic horror movies being sophisticated. I agree. That's not what I meant) I know I'll probably get chased with pitchforks & torches, but we might give a little too much credit to Night & Day (HA!!!) and Dawn. Are they REALLY that good, or is it just that we love them so much??? (I enjoyed Ford Fairlane ) I like Land and Diary.

[darth los]

Being totally objective i do think that Dawn is a great all time film that trancends it's genre. There's a lot of stuff going on in that film that you don't have to be a horror fan to appreciate. It's better than night in every way. What elevates night's status to the same level is the fact that it was the first and showed things we haven't seen before that have gone on to be copied countless times.

[Shadowofthedead]

i cant go anyway.... i love all things zombie. i am romero lover, itallian lover, zombie dog lover.... etc... i will give most movies a chance unless they rip off classics like reanimator and such. i like diary and land. i like that i got to watch diary for free. i am in like with zombies. im the crazy nut who wishes the dead would really come back to life. i dont know im in one of those oddly sleep deprived moods