Pregnant US man hails 'miracle' - Ummm... NAH!

[Chic Freak]

Chic, I didn't say it didn't exist, I agreed that it did. I just said it was a mental disorder, which is how it is also classified. Which makes sense, anyone who would mutilate their genitals to feel better emotionally clearly has a mental issue to work on. If the only way to stave off an evident suicide is to let them mangle themselves and call themselves the opposite sex then I say, go for it. So long as it isn't being paid for with taxes. I may seem cold hearted, but if i see a man with a mangled penis who wants to be called a woman I cannot oblige. I would meet them half way and call them a transsexual if they liked, but not a woman, they aren't a woman. I've read this a couple of times and either you are contradicting yourself, or I'm just not understanding what you're trying to say. If it's the former: * You agree that transgenderism is a congenital illness, yet say it is also a mental disorder * You agree that transgenderism really is where people have the brain of one gender and the body of another, yet refer to realigning the brain and body as "genital mutilation" * You agree that transgenderism really is where people have the brain of one gender and the body of another, yet say that transgender people who want to realign their bodies with their brains have a "mental issue." Surely it would be stranger to want to remain mismatched? * If you agree that transgenderism really is where people have the brain of one gender and the body of another, how can you refer to a woman who used to have male genitalia, but now has female genitalia, as anything other than a woman, if you agree that she has both a female brain and body? If it's the latter, and I'm just completely misunderstanding what you're saying, please explain

[MinionZombie]

It's an interesting issue. I guess I personally would consider somebody who used to be a dude, and is now a chick, to be something like 60 to 80 percent female ... cos with all the surgery in the world, an ex-dude/now-a-woman can't create life inside of them - they have no womb or ovaries, which is a huge difference from a dude ... guys fill that space with beer and burgers. Likewise, an ex-woman/now-a-bloke can't spoodge up a storm and go seeding up their one-night-fields like it's going out of style...at least I don't think so, I don't exactly find this sort of thing particularly intriguing to read up on. So it's kinda like looking at it from both a 'medical' point of view, for lack of a better word, and from a 'spiritual' point of view, for lack of a better word. If that makes sense ... ? ... that's my thoughts on the issue anyway.

[Khardis]

I've read this a couple of times and either you are contradicting yourself, or I'm just not understanding what you're trying to say. If it's the former: * You agree that transgenderism is a congenital illness, yet say it is also a mental disorder * You agree that transgenderism really is where people have the brain of one gender and the body of another, yet refer to realigning the brain and body as "genital mutilation" * You agree that transgenderism really is where people have the brain of one gender and the body of another, yet say that transgender people who want to realign their bodies with their brains have a "mental issue." Surely it would be stranger to want to remain mismatched? * If you agree that transgenderism really is where people have the brain of one gender and the body of another, how can you refer to a woman who used to have male genitalia, but now has female genitalia, as anything other than a woman, if you agree that she has both a female brain and body? If it's the latter, and I'm just completely misunderstanding what you're saying, please explain I said that I agreed that it exists, Gender Dysphoria, which is a mental disorder. "Transgenderism" isn't really a real medical word, the cause of "transgenderism" is gender dysphoria which is a mental disorder, not a physical disorder. GD is a real mental issue and it causes real pain and therefore requires real treatment at times. This makes it real enough to be considered. Which is probably why as I said medical science labels it as a mental disorder. No one is born with a "female brain" this doesn't make sense, the "mind" as we know it is not chartable, so it ca encompass a lot of confusions. 1 of which would be gender dysphoria. Men who are born men and who become women may FEEL and THINK they should be a woman, but that doesn't mean their brain is a woman's brain, it means they think/feel it only. Its a mental issue. Kind of like people who were born thinking they were werewolves in middle ages. "how can you refer to a woman who used to have male genitalia, but now has female genitalia, as anything other than a woman, if you agree that she has both a female brain and body?" Well for 1, He doesn't have female genitalia anymore than any Eunuch has female genitalia. Gender reassignment is cosmetic in purpose only, the purpose for which is to LOOK like a female. Not actually BE a female. And even then it requires a LIFETIME of hormone therapy treatment to keep itself from reverting back to just being a male with a mutilated penis. Female genitalia isn't something that can be created surgically, neither can male genitalia. Having your testicles removes and your penis flipped inside out to create a fold and then fake labia added with a scalpel is no more woman or real than if I wear a wig and stuff socks in my shirt and pretend i'm a woman. And their brain is still male, always was. Now its just swimming in artificially introduced hormones from external forces. All in all, I can call a man who went through sex reassignment surgery not a woman because, well... he isn't one. It's an interesting issue. I guess I personally would consider somebody who used to be a dude, and is now a chick, to be something like 60 to 80 percent female ... cos with all the surgery in the world, an ex-dude/now-a-woman can't create life inside of them - they have no womb or ovaries, which is a huge difference from a dude ... guys fill that space with beer and burgers. Likewise, an ex-woman/now-a-bloke can't spoodge up a storm and go seeding up their one-night-fields like it's going out of style...at least I don't think so, I don't exactly find this sort of thing particularly intriguing to read up on. So it's kinda like looking at it from both a 'medical' point of view, for lack of a better word, and from a 'spiritual' point of view, for lack of a better word. If that makes sense ... ? ... that's my thoughts on the issue anyway. It goes even deeper than that. A man who switches is still a man because his DNA says so, and likewise for a woman. "interpretation" has nothing to do with medical facts and everything to do with political correctness and societal norms.

[kortick]

this is amusing i dont mean insult that would be petty and that is an emetic notion to me but khardis sometimes you come across as an educated neanderthal who lives on a diet of bile and hate. you must be fun at parties. first off, i know many Transexuals gender disphoria is a mental condition but that is just the first step after being diagnosed with GD then you are seen by psychs to make sure it isnt schizophrenia or some other mental disorder. thats where it leaves the realm of mental illness. next step is referral to an endocrinologist en·do·cri·nol·o·gy -The study of the glands and hormones of the body and their related disorders. that is where it is determined if a MEDICAL problem is present. usually one finds a lack of testerone or estrogen. so there a diagnosis is made. if there is a medical condition it is treated with hormone therapy, this is not artificially introduced hormones, but needed ones to replace the missing ones. if your testosterone level dropped your penis would shrivel just like theirs do. no difference. are you not aware that most transgendered dont have fully functional genitals? your not mutilating something that was already damaged. are you aware that the criteria for getting a sex change is living and functioning as the opposite sex for up to 2 years before they even begin? There are very complex steps for sexual re assignment surgery and its clear you read a dsm, its also clear you know nothing of the reality of the procedure. i could go on, but ive lost interest. chic you are more correct about things than anyone dont let anyone try to fool you other wise. honestly Khardis, i mean no insult. you would know when I am insulting someone. but like i said i bet your a blast at parties.

[Khardis]

I don't care if I sound harsh, you cant say I am wrong though. What I am like at parties doesn't matter in the terms of this discussion.

[clanglee]

Still, Bosom Buddies was a great show.

[DeadJonas190]

I don't care if I sound harsh, you cant say I am wrong though. What I am like at parties doesn't matter in the terms of this discussion. We can say you are wrong because you are presenting your opinion as a fact, when in fact, it is your opinion and not fact. I think it comes down to that every argument on this board, you never admit your wrong even if facts are presented that prove you are wrong. Personally I enjoy reading your posts because they can be entertaining in a Bill O'riley no spin zone kind of way...

[Khardis]

We can say you are wrong because you are presenting your opinion as a fact, when in fact, it is your opinion and not fact. I think it comes down to that every argument on this board, you never admit your wrong even if facts are presented that prove you are wrong. Personally I enjoy reading your posts because they can be entertaining in a Bill O'riley no spin zone kind of way... Which opinion was a i presenting as a fact? The fact that Gender Dysphoria is a mental illness? I am sorry if you don't like that but thats not an opinion, thats a fact.

[Bruiser235]

I'm so sick of this "thing" being called a man. It's a woman. End of story. As Neil would say, only in America. And that ain't a good thing.

[Mike70]

I'm so sick of this "thing" being called a man. well calling someone a "thing" isn't a very nice thing to say. kinda tells us more about you than the person you are slamming. anyway, gender is, in a great degree, a matter of personal identity. and to be questioning the very way you were born must be a rather emotional, troubling experience. there are lots of people that struggle with this and if it is a mental disorder it is no different than any other mental illness that we show great tolerance for - addiction, depression, obsessive/compulsive, etc. we shouldn't marginalize or slam people that want to be or are different from what is considered "normal."

[kortick]

Ahh.... sometimes I realise why I leave the other forum where we discuss existentialism and its relations to the tenets of nihilism to come here. Its so I can see posts from people who are always right and others who promote hate by calling people "things". Reading post like these are the literary equivalent of a finger down the throat. And what pray tell kind of 'thing' are you? Only in the US you say. well we can start of by saying you are an ignorant thing as transexuals have been around since before the US was founded. And not ever being wrong is a constant problem with you khardis. one which I don't understand. Because i truly feel you are capable of providing enlightening points of view. most people have a toggle switch that goes from "im right" to "i may not be" you set the dial on extreme omniscience and broke it off. there is no black and white with shades of grey in between, only black, because you present your positions with such disgust for the opinion of others. toilet training at gun point didnt work out so good i see. ok we have established GD is a mental condition. However you are no seeing it as a SYMPTOM of the problem and as the problem itself. Like vomiting is a symptom of food poisioning, not the problem. quote: It is beleived that gender is hard-wired in the brain before birth. As such, being transsexual is a congenital birth issue unseen by others due to its location in the brain: a mis-match in the sex of a person between that of the brain and that of the body. The main symptom of this condition is a unique type of depression, anxiety or even psychological pain: Gender Dysphoria. You are not wrong in some of what you say, but your disbelief supresses you, but your not blind its just that you wont see. Using terms like "thing" and "multilate" and impying they are crazy and there is no medical basis for this frankly astounds me. I still bet your fun at parties....

[Khardis]

Ahh.... sometimes I realise why I leave the other forum where we discuss existentialism and its relations to the tenets of nihilism to come here. Its so I can see posts from people who are always right and others who promote hate by calling people "things". Reading post like these are the literary equivalent of a finger down the throat. And what pray tell kind of 'thing' are you? Only in the US you say. well we can start of by saying you are an ignorant thing as transexuals have been around since before the US was founded. And not ever being wrong is a constant problem with you khardis. one which I don't understand. Because i truly feel you are capable of providing enlightening points of view. most people have a toggle switch that goes from "im right" to "i may not be" you set the dial on extreme omniscience and broke it off. there is no black and white with shades of grey in between, only black, because you present your positions with such disgust for the opinion of others. toilet training at gun point didnt work out so good i see. ok we have established GD is a mental condition. However you are no seeing it as a SYMPTOM of the problem and as the problem itself. Like vomiting is a symptom of food poisioning, not the problem. quote: It is beleived that gender is hard-wired in the brain before birth. As such, being transsexual is a congenital birth issue unseen by others due to its location in the brain: a mis-match in the sex of a person between that of the brain and that of the body. The main symptom of this condition is a unique type of depression, anxiety or even psychological pain: Gender Dysphoria. You are not wrong in some of what you say, but your disbelief supresses you, but your not blind its just that you wont see. Using terms like "thing" and "multilate" and impying they are crazy and there is no medical basis for this frankly astounds me. I still bet your fun at parties.... I never said thing, and when you cut off your testicles, remove most of your urethra and then flip your penis inside out, that is mutilation. Wether or not its for a good cause is semantics and up to social discussion, fact is that its still mutilation though with no physical medical benefits. And as per parties, well I don't usually go to parties where people sit around and have discussions based in politics or gender identity. I go to cut loose.

[ProfessorChaos]

while we're on the subject, mr. garrison from south park is once again mr. garrison, thanks to another sex change operation they even mentioned this particular case in the episode.

[Terran]

Neurologically speaking, when it comes to the brain, I wouldnt think there is a clear distinction between what is physcial and "mental"... Its an overlap that pisses everyone off(in some way or another).... And what pray tell kind of 'thing' are you? *shudders* I would like to think of a great reference back to a Lovecraft story...but I cant just seem to think of one..... And to answer the question personally...."Im working on it".....

[DeadJonas190]

Which opinion was a i presenting as a fact? The fact that Gender Dysphoria is a mental illness? I am sorry if you don't like that but thats not an opinion, thats a fact. I'm not just talking about this post, in nearly every post you make you present your opinions as if they are facts, often using the word fact in reference to an opinion. It's as if your opinion is the only reality and there is not another explanation other than the opinion you present. Even if somebody proves you wrong (and im not talking about this instance) you will argue as if you are still right. In this instance though, it seems that you keep degrading people with this condition instead of recognizing the problem as a problem that has a cure, even if it is not something agreeable to you. But like I said before, your entertaining in a Bill O'Riley no spin zone kind of way. I will actually admit that I like to read your posts, they keep me entertained when im bored sometimes.