Feasibility of Zombie Holocaust

[Gemini]

Gents, The way I see it, there really is only a couple of scenarios in which the living dead would have a plausible chance to overwhelm the living and drive us to the brink of extinction. One would be for the infection to spread via bite and for the reanimated corpses to sprint and attack like rabid animals ala DOTD 04. The other scenario, and the only one in which the shambling "classic" zombie would have a chance to overrun us, would be for all people to reanimate once deceased (in addition to the virus being spread by bite); in this situation the sheer volume of living dead would compensate for their limited mobility. This scenario is I believe the basis of the Romero movies althought the idea is not fully fleshed out in the series. This is where I think Max Brooks may have gotten it wrong. I love his books, but I don't see how the living dead could inherit the planet if the disease is spread only via bites AND the dead shamble along at a slow pace; they would just be too easily massacred. The only way a bite-only contagion could spread like that were if the zombies were as dangerous as those in DOTD 04. On another note, I liked the idea in the original NOTLD of the satellite bringing back with it strange forms of radiation which caused the dead to reanimate, but this idea was never elaborated. Opinions?

[SRP76]

One of my favorite arguments returns! I'm in the minority, but I believe we're screwed when zombies attack. Shamblers can wipe us out quickly and effectively. People make several assumptions when thinking these zombies are easy to defeat: 1. That people know what to do with zombies. Not true. Sure, everyone on this board would leap into action and headshot these things into oblivion, but we're in the tiny minority. There are far, far more people that don't give a crap about zombies, know nothing about zombie fiction, and think we're all just losers for watching. Cool people watch American Pie, after all. 2. That even if people knew what to do with a zombie, the response would be rapid and effective. This is a fucking joke. I once saw a newscast with an unarmed jackass in a stopped van holding off police for like 4 hours. Give me a fucking break. They won't move on a ghoul until it mauls at least 1,000 people. 3. That nobody will intentionally put themselves into harm's way "just because it's cool". Yes, they WILL. Like the retards that went TO where a hurricane was forecast, just to "experience it" (I mentioned this in a previous thread somewhere). Then you have the idiots that will try to rape zombies, stick them in their basement to show their friends, all manner of stupidity. These fools will be chomped, and become ghouls themselves, swelling the ranks. 4. That people would even take reports seriously. They don't now, so they won't in the future. People blow off terrorist alerts; you think they won't blow off "zombie raid"? Think again. And even those that believe it don't care unless its at their door. They will gleefully ignore a guy down the street getting butchered, as long as they themselves are free to watch their American Idol at 8 o'clock. This total apathy will let zombies run amok quite easily. 5. That people will do one fucking thing to save themselves. This goes hand-in-hand with #4. They will not lift a finger to help themselves. People who don't immediately start looking for a government handout, and bitch if "THE AUTHORITIES AREN'T HANDLING THIS FAST ENOUGH" are a very small minority. Most will sit on their sorry asses and cry the blues. And that's the truth. Now in a world where everyone holds hands and sings campfire songs, Romero's shamblers could be put down quickly. But I've never seen a world like that, outside of Star Trek reruns. In our realm, once the first handful of zombies starts biting and someone shambles outside the initial containment area, all hell will break loose.

[Ghost Of War]

People are stupid and ignorant. Stupidity and ignorance will get a LOT of people killed, and then those people will get up and kill, and the people they kill will GET UP AND KILL! By that time, there'll be too many shamblers shambling about. If we're talking about "infected" a la 28 Days Later, then yeah, maybe it'll happen quicker. But either way I reckon we'll be fucked.

[BillyRay]

People make several assumptions when thinking these zombies are easy to defeat: 1. That people know what to do with zombies. Well, that's a factor that you don't see in Zombie Flicks. In a Vampire or Werewolf flick, there's always somebody who steps forward and says: "I saw this in a movie, (X) defeats (Monster)." But never in a zombie film. It always takes a couple shots to the chest, the zed falling and getting back up, and somebody getting bit in the process, before the main characters figure out to AIM FOR THE @#$%-ING HEAD. I know, I know, the stupidity of the main characters make a film more interesting. (Drives the story, they tell me); but in a "Real-Life Scenario" enough folks would have the idea to AIM FOR THE @#$%-ING HEAD.... On another note, I liked the idea in the original NOTLD of the satellite bringing back with it strange forms of radiation which caused the dead to reanimate, but this idea was never elaborated. Check out the "Zombie Intelligence: Bub vs Big Daddy" thread. There's a ton of great ideas being postulated and argued ad infinitum. (That's not a criticism, that's why we're here. For sweet, sweet Geek talk)

[SRP76]

Another thing to consider: most people are pathetic, pants-pissing cowards. I remembered one example here on this board. Someone posted a video of three dumbassed "gangstas" running amok on a train (or bus or subway or whatever). Now, these guys were like 150 soaking fucking wet, and their punches couldn't even get a guy to drop his damned grocery bag! In other words, NOT Conan the Barbarian. NOT deadly. There were like 50 people sitting there. Against 3 skinny thugs that you could break in half with about one punch. Yet, what did those 50 people do? That's right, they ran to one end of the train, huddled in absolute fear of these guys, and watched them beat on one guy in a 3-on-1 attack. Even after they stepped away, and the guy got back up (in the process proving to everyone that their attacks aren't dangerous, and therefore nothing to fear), those people STILL fled and trembled. Now, consider that. Replace the scrawny thugs with a snarling, slathering, dead creature. What do you think's going to happen? I can tell you right now that I will take on an Eminem lookalike that thinks he's bad LONG before I try jumping on some undead monster. And I bet you the world that so would almost everyone else. So yeah, there will NOT be any "let's kill the ghoul". There will be shitting in pants, screaming in terror, and begging for their miserable lives, which the ghoul will ignore as it begins breakfast. That's just a specific incident, but it's not uncommon. It happens the same way, everywhere, every day. People will kill zombies? Please. They won't even stand up to a punk on the fucking bus. And he's NOT trying to eat you alive.

[Gemini]

Thanks for the feedback, interesting. According to these opinions it sounds like human incompetance, apathy, and cowardice would do us in more than the zombies; we would defeat ourselves. Another factor that would complicate an effective response would be the emotional connection many would feel with infected and reanimated loved ones, like the mess in the apartment building in the original Dawn; and bleeding heart groups would no doubt protest massacring the Z's, claiming that they are still somehow human and that their elimination would amount to genocide. But would we regroup and ultimately prevail ala WWZ? Is that movie going anywhere BTW? I have heard a release date this year?? One thing about DOTD 04 - even if we somehow mounted the most effective counter attack possible and avoided the human frailties mentioned in this thread we would be totally FUCKED by that rabid horde - like it or not those Z's were 10x deadlier than Romero's.

[SRP76]

But would we regroup and ultimately prevail ala WWZ? I doubt it. That book takes a lot of liberties with reality. Like for instance, the United States west of the Rockies being safe. Excuse me? The most populous state in the union is located there. There will be more ghouls in Los Angeles alone than in about a 1/3 swath of the center of the country. The West Coast is a death trap. There are a lot of things like that in the book. If you got lucky with thousands of survivors, whole military units, and all that all in one place like in the book (yeah, good luck) it might be possible. But still only possible. At the end of the day, you still have to scour literally every square millimeter of the planet, blasting every single ghoul off it. If you divide surface area by number of survivors, multiplied by time taken to clear each area, you find that it's not probable.

[Andy]

But would we regroup and ultimately prevail ala WWZ? I Like to think humanity would prevail, Not through fighting Z's as it seems to be a never ending and very tiring task, especially in the latter stages of a Zombolocaust, every single 1 you kill would be replaced with 10 others and using guns is more than likely a no-no as youd be very limited on ammo. It would be endless and very tiring close quarters combat and you'd make a mistake soon. I Think humanity would prevail due to our ability to hide away, buckle down and wait and let nature and decomposition take its toll on the undead.

[SRP76]

By my estimates, you need a minimum of 300,000 survivors to actually cover the planet in the way you need to. That's all of them actually doing so every waking moment of their lives, and living to be over 100 years old. And it would take their entire lives. Probably not fun. A more reasonable situation would be at least 10 million survivors. They would still work near-constantly, but they'd be done in "only" about 5 years. 10-15 years if they do it realistically, only scouring and fighting about 10 hours a day, every day. You need all ten million perfectly spaced in starting positions, and in constant, perfect coordination throughout, though. If not, you've got to add year to it.

[Gemini]

I live in VT and I would feel pretty damn safe here during a Zombielocaust. It has been above freezing here about three of the past ninety days. If ever there was a place for key military and civilian groups to assemble it would be up north above the freeze line with strategic forays into the south on sweep and destroy missions. And no the encampment by the Lake in WWZ would not be an effective method to retreat north!

[Legion2213]

This is a simple cut of how I see it... GAR shambler Zombies: I don't think it would be that bad if people accepted what needed to be done early on, the tide could be stemmed, I could take down half a dozen with a cricket bat...as could every able bodied person. 28 Days Infected: Would spread a lot faster, might tip the balance even though they are technically easier to kill, I don't see anybody having a chance without ranged weapons. Dawn 04 Zombies: We are fucked. They are fast, you need a headshot to kill them and they won't eventually starve like the Infected. Dawn 04 models are the worst case scenario IMO. .

[SRP76]

Dawn 04 models are the worst case scenario IMO. . I'll disagree with that. The worst case would be those brain-eating Return jokers. The ones that can't be killed at all (which is just one more thing I hate about that movie). Talk about impossible. You'd have to invent some kind of weapon that can literally flash-cremate a human body in less than 1 second, while also being portable.

[Legion2213]

Yeah, I'm not a big fan of those films (as zombie films)...those zombies are like John Carpenters "The Thing", every individual cell is capable of survival and independant thought and action. .

[krakenslayer]

I'll disagree with that. The worst case would be those brain-eating Return jokers. The ones that can't be killed at all (which is just one more thing I hate about that movie). Talk about impossible. You'd have to invent some kind of weapon that can literally flash-cremate a human body in less than 1 second, while also being portable. The idea is horrific, but was kind of ruined by Return's misguided (for me) comic tone. Although, in the sequel it turns out that high voltage electricity destroys them, which makes sense - if you imagine the zombies in Romero's films have had their brain reactivated and can be killed by destroying the brain, the zombies in the Return movies have had their whole nervous systems reactivated and can only be killed by cremating/shorting out all of their nerve tissue.

[rongravy]

Bring it on, just not the fast ones. I've only got a little over a month of not smoking under my belt. Live here in the Arkie mountains in an RV, raid for gas while I can, try to live off the land as best as I can too. Grow my own bud, hunt some deer and other wild game with a bow, fish alot... Get all Grizzly Adamsed up!