Dawkins wants to arrest the pope

[EvilNed]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/com...cle7094310.ece RICHARD DAWKINS, the atheist campaigner, is planning a legal ambush to have the Pope arrested during his state visit to Britain “for crimes against humanity”. Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens, the atheist author, have asked human rights lawyers to produce a case for charging Pope Benedict XVI over his alleged cover-up of sexual abuse in the Catholic church. The pair believe they can exploit the same legal principle used to arrest Augusto Pinochet, the late Chilean dictator, when he visited Britain in 1998. The Pope was embroiled in new controversy this weekend over a letter he signed arguing that the “good of the universal church” should be considered against the defrocking of an American priest who committed sex offences against two boys. It was dated 1985, when he was in charge of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, which deals with sex abuse cases. RELATED LINKS Children who front atheist ads are evangelicals Dawkins aims to convert Islam to evolution Benedict will be in Britain between September 16 and 19, visiting London, Glasgow and Coventry, where he will beatify Cardinal John Henry Newman, the 19th-century theologian. Dawkins and Hitchens believe the Pope would be unable to claim diplomatic immunity from arrest because, although his tour is categorised as a state visit, he is not the head of a state recognised by the United Nations. They have commissioned the barrister Geoffrey Robertson and Mark Stephens, a solicitor, to present a justification for legal action. The lawyers believe they can ask the Crown Prosecution Service to initiate criminal proceedings against the Pope, launch their own civil action against him or refer his case to the International Criminal Court. Dawkins, author of The God Delusion, said: “This is a man whose first instinct when his priests are caught with their pants down is to cover up the scandal and damn the young victims to silence.” Hitchens, author of God Is Not Great, said: “This man is not above or outside the law. The institutionalised concealment of child rape is a crime under any law and demands not private ceremonies of repentance or church-funded payoffs, but justice and punishment." Last year pro-Palestinian activists persuaded a British judge to issue an arrest warrant for Tzipi Livni, the Israeli politician, for offences allegedly committed during the 2008-09 conflict in Gaza. The warrant was withdrawn after Livni cancelled her planned trip to the UK. “There is every possibility of legal action against the Pope occurring,” said Stephens. “Geoffrey and I have both come to the view that the Vatican is not actually a state in international law. It is not recognised by the UN, it does not have borders that are policed and its relations are not of a full diplomatic nature.”

[JDFP]

Oh, Richard Dawkins, the Atheist's everyman... why don't you hurry up and die and save the world the trouble of dealing with your absurdity? Yet again the liberal media machine is having a field day with this nonsense and absurdity. I have nothing but absolute contempt towards this nut-job. What's next, Dick, are you going to support the arrest of Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton for their support of prisoners? Not counting the hate speech of Jeremiah Wright that would verge on treason if as early as 50 years ago? Oh, wait, no... you can't do that. That would be racist because they're black! Are you going to support the arrest of Jewish religious leaders who have supported the displacement of Palestinians as being a crime against humanity? No, can't do that either, that's anti-Semitic! Yet, it's perfectly fine and, in fact, in tune with contemporary ideology to attack Rome because that's not inflammatory or racist or anti-Semitic in anyway whatsoever. Sure, let's keep taking shots at Rome in response to the less than 2% of clergy that have been "accused" in some manner of lewd conduct or behavior. Meanwhile, we should ignore the fact (as the media does) that just as many, or more, cases of lewd behavior/conduct have been labeled against Protestant and Jewish authorities as well for their clergy/rabbi's. But, no, we can't say that because it's hate-speech! The sword of double-standards has yet again triumphed. Go ahead, Richard, attempt to arrest the Vicar of Christ with your liberal trumpeters of stupidity, and ensure that your writing career of absurdest postmodernist drivel is cut short. If the time ever came to take up arms for my faith in protection of it, you better believe I'd be on the side of Rome come that battle. j.p.

[Publius]

Dawkins and Hitchens believe the Pope would be unable to claim diplomatic immunity from arrest because, although his tour is categorised as a state visit, he is not the head of a state recognised by the United Nations. . . . . “There is every possibility of legal action against the Pope occurring,” said Stephens. “Geoffrey and I have both come to the view that the Vatican is not actually a state in international law. It is not recognised by the UN, it does not have borders that are policed and its relations are not of a full diplomatic nature.” What lunatics. The Holy See is a "permanent observer" at the UN with "Non-Member State" status. In other words, the UN recognizes the Holy See as a state which has elected not to join the UN. The same status that Switzerland had until fairly recently (when the Swiss decided to go for full membership). The Pope is the head of state of the Holy See. His entitlement to diplomatic immunity is not a serious question.

[DubiousComforts]

If the time ever came to take up arms for my faith in protection of it, you better believe I'd be on the side of Rome come that battle Dude, what the hell? This sounds every bit as ridiculous as the atheists.

[EvilNed]

I think this is awesome. The Pope is a despicable symbol of oppression and if I believed in Good and Evil (which I don't) I know in which plane I'd put him. I doubt they're really expecting a trial. I see this more as a demonstration to make people wake up as to what disgusting beast this dude is.

[Kaos]

Let's reduce this to the essential facts. Dawkins does not support the rape of children as evidenced by his actions, and the pope does support the rape of children as evidenced by his actions. Everything else is a feeble attempt to obfuscate the essential facts.

[Danny]

Let's reduce this to the essential facts. Dawkins does not support the rape of children as evidenced by his actions, and the pope does support the rape of children as evidenced by his actions. Everything else is a feeble attempt to obfuscate the essential facts. true enough, take away the religious aspect and this man and his organization have harbored, protected and covered up many, many pedophiles. Dont get me wrong this "legal ambush" sounds stupid too. theres just far too many people using the christian religion to cover that these men have literally fucked these christian peoples kids. Somethings gotta give eventually.

[JDFP]

Dude, what the hell? This sounds every bit as ridiculous as the atheists. Actually, standing up for something greater than yourself is the complete opposite of everything that Atheism promotes. j.p. ---------- Post added at 03:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:40 PM ---------- I think this is awesome. The Pope is a despicable symbol of oppression and if I believed in Good and Evil (which I don't) I know in which plane I'd put him. I doubt they're really expecting a trial. I see this more as a demonstration to make people wake up as to what disgusting beast this dude is. His Holiness is a symbol of Christ on earth as the vicar until Christ's return. At least I believe this within my faith. I don't expect you to accept my theological ideology nor would I ever attempt to ram my beliefs down your throat (we as Catholics are against that, and anyone who attempts to do so is going against the teachings of the Second Vatican Council); nor do I attempt to attack your theological (or lack thereof) ideology or beliefs (even though I rightfully will attack the secular religion of Communism as being the murderous regime under people like Stalin and Mao). The phrases you use above to describe my faith I take the same way as a black person in hearing the N-word or calling a Jew a dog or saying that the Holocaust never happened or that it was made up. The difference between someone like Dawkins and someone like a Holocaust denier is that it's perfectly okay to be anti-Catholic, but it's a cultural taboo to be against Judaism or other religious ideologies made up of minorities. I don't mean this as an offense against you, Ned, but it's how I see things from my perspective and deal with it as being a minority Catholic in a primarily ignorant Protestant city on a daily basis. It's a double fucking standard that makes me ill. It's fine to say whatever you want about my beliefs and my faith, but it's taboo to speak negatively about other cultures or religions because that's just not "acceptable" by society's standards. I guarantee you that if we had one person on this board that said the Holocaust never happened (I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT) or calling Jewish rabbi's "scum" because of their actions against Palestinians the topic would be closed within five minutes by a moderator here because of the virulent attacks that would take place. But, by all means, be as anti-Catholic as you want, that's perfectly A-okay. I find attacks against His Holiness and my faith to be personal in nature when they devolve from intelligent conversations on the issues into words such as "despicable", "oppression", "disgusting", and "beast". j.p.

[EvilNed]

Are you saying that pedophilia transcends mankind!? (Oh, and by the way, I do believe the way that Pope has dealt with pedophilia is disgusting. Your faith is not in issue here, not with me. The Pope is. The Pope is, in my view, a dick that needs to be prosecuted. Faith or not faith.)

[JDFP]

Are you saying that pedophilia transcends mankind!? (Oh, and by the way, I do believe the way that Pope has dealt with pedophilia is disgusting. Your faith is not in issue here, not with me. The Pope is. The Pope is, in my view, a dick that needs to be prosecuted. Faith or not faith.) Of course not. Those who have done wrongly and have been convicted of such should be punished to the full extent of the law. I completely agree with that. However, it's a media frenzy of anti-Catholicism in going after the oldest and most traditional religion on earth moreso than a matter of facts. There have been just as many accusations against clergy from other religions and ideologies as there have been against Catholicism (if not more). The difference is that Catholicism is the oldest and most traditional and so, naturally, the liberal media would go after them in attack more than any other religion or ideology. The question is whether or not Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger did or did not act accordingly to canon law in his actions as Prefect of the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith. If this is the case that he did act inappropriately against canon law in his position then that's another debate and we could discuss the issue of canon law and actions within this law within his former position. This issue is whether or not Ratzinger acted accordingly to canon law within the framework as established in his position. I do not know all the facts in that matter, nor do any of us as of yet until an investigation in the matter is done. If we want to attack his actions, then we should do so accordingly to the canon law that is established and based -- such as looking at reforms within canon law and responses. I agree with this. As an individual we can discuss Cardinal Ratzinger within that frame-work, but that does not detract from his responsibility and office as papal head of the faith. If he did not act accordingly to the framework of the law, then yes, I agree, he should resign from office. However, I still respect the important and essential role he has within the framework of the faith. j.p.

[MikePizzoff]

I love when people call atheists nutjobs while they believe in some imaginary being that "created everything" and has this crazy party place for after you die. Oh yeah and there's also the guy that lives in the center of the Earth, so if you "sin" when alive, then you will eternally burn in his flames when dead. Don't let me forget the people that have golden rings that float above their head and wings which allow them to fly to the clouds! Those bones/fossils archeologists discover in the Earth of giant dinosaurs? They were fabricated and planted there by humans, because there was no such thing as creatures on Earth before man was "created". Yeah, atheists sure are whacked, huh?

[JDFP]

I love when people call atheists nutjobs while they believe in some imaginary being that "created everything" and has this crazy party place for after you die. Oh yeah and there's also the guy that lives in the center of the Earth, so if you "sin" when alive, then you will eternally burn in his flames when dead. Don't let me forget the people that have golden rings that float above their head and wings which allow them to fly to the clouds! Those bones/fossils archeologists discover in the Earth of giant dinosaurs? They were fabricated and planted there by humans, because there was no such thing as creatures on Earth before man was "created". Yeah, atheists sure are whacked, huh? No, some Atheists (a minority of them) make valid and strong arguments for their beliefs / lack of beliefs. However, the vast majority of them (like Dawkins, Bertrand Russell, that idiot Bill Maher, and others) are perfectly content with believing in Atheism in an attack on Christianity on a 3rd grade level. The Christians you discuss above, well, if that's what that want to believe Christianity is are also living and believing it on a 3rd grade level as well. Unfortunately, the majority of Christians are perfectly content in living and following their ideas on this third grade level and it gives the rest of us a bad name for our religion. For one, an educated Christian could easily tell you that the Theory of Evolution does not detract from or contradict Christian principles or teachings in the least. Fundamentalists are usually idiots regardless of religious persuasion or lack of religious persuasion (in that regard, Christianity and Atheism have something they mutually share in common). j.p.

[SRP76]

Fuck religion. The issue is whether or not the Pope participated in a coverup of child molestation. If he did, and there is reasonable proof of it, then he should be arrested. I don't give a shit who you are, Pope or not - it's illegal. Get it through. If there is not any reasonable evidence of his participation, then he should not be arrested. That's a real simple situation. People need to stop trying to make it a religious war, and hiding behind beliefs. Beliefs are irrelevant. It's "did he commit a crime, or did he not".

[Legion2213]

Dawkins is a complete fucking tool - As an athiest/infidel/non-beliver, this dick head does not represent me...but then again, I am not an extremist, fanatical athiest... As for arresating the Pope, good luck with that mate. Maybe when you've done that you can challenge leaders of "less passive" religions who also have child abusers in their ranks...see you outside the mosque, Dawko...well, bits of you.

[EvilNed]

Seeing as the Pope is the head of an institution that protects child molestors, I see him as directly responsible. That maybe a bit vain of me, but as long as the Pope has not actively pursued bringing ALL of his pet child molestors to justice, he's guilty in my book. Dude needs to get his ass to court. I doubt the Pope is going to get arrested here (altough I wish he would) but I see this as an awesome demonstration of just how fucked up that institution is. I doubt Dawkins sees this as anything other than a demonstration. Of course. It could work. I hope it does.