Let's Nitpick Dawn Some More: Time of Outbreak

[SRP76]

In the interest of squeezing every last ounce of arguing out of this movie, I figured I'd start this thread.

I was thinking earlier (while viewing the chopper thread) about the setup of the mall when our heroes arrive. All the stores were locked down, but every outside entrance was wide open.

Made me think about how that could happen. If zombies had shambled up during the daytime, the mall would be open for business, so the bloodbath would have left all areas of the mall open. So, the stores in the mall HAD to have already been closed up for the night when the mall was invaded.

There is a time after the stores all close up, that the mall itself is still open (and the doors are likewise unlocked before the stores open the next day). The zombie invasion had to have happened during this timeframe.

Further, it had to have happened near the end of this soft zone in time. The mall folks had already shut down all the power. This would be the last thing done before locking the doors up for the night. So, the zombies had to have broken in literally minutes before the mall people could get the doors locked.

A few minutes could have saved their lives. If shamblers had arrived 5 minutes later than they did, our heroes would have encountered mall security living large in there already.

Thoughts...?

[Yojimbo]

I agree that the breakdown probabaly did occur after hours when the stores are all closed down for the evening but the mall doors have not yet all been locked down.

Back in my early 20s I was a weekend shift Security Officer at our local mall, and the stores would shut down at 7pm. As I would be clocking out for the day (I worked Day Shift) the Graveyard Shift officers would begin locking down the mall doors leaving only those leading to the parking structure (which had security cameras) to allow workers and shoppers to get out of the mall. They would complete this detail at approximately 8pm and then someone would have to go back through the mall and lock the final doors, leaving only the doors next to the security office open for folks to get in and out of by 9PM.

I remember that the zombie in the boiler room looked like a security guard, so maybe he was one of the graveyard shift officer assigned to this final detail and got pegged during the process. Perhaps there were still some shoppers and employees in the mall at closing time, just after the stores shut their gates, and then some zombie attacks went down, causing whoever was left to flee in a hurry.

[SRP76]

I'm also thinking they got hit on Saturday night, unlike the poor folks in Night. Night took place on a Sunday.

But back in the '70s, it wasn't like it is today. Just about nothing was open on Sundays. Even many of the ever-greedy convenience stores were closed. The mall certainly would have been.

[FoodFight]

At least locally, the common mall areas are open just prior to store openings so that older residents and physically challenged people can get some exercise in a climate controlled and relatively 'safe' environment. Of course, as SRP76 said, the '70's were different and such a program would be highly unlikely, given the decade.

After reading the topic I had to add this, given my mental image of our local 'mall walkers' being ravaged by the living dead.:D

[Yojimbo]

At least locally, the common mall areas are open just prior to store openings so that older residents and physically challenged people can get some exercise in a climate controlled and relatively 'safe' environment. Of course, as SRP76 said, the '70's were different and such a program would be highly unlikely, given the decade.

After reading the topic I had to add this, given my mental image of our local 'mall walkers' being ravaged by the living dead.:D

Yeah, we had a program like that in our mall in the late 80s, and I used to think it was funny because some of the old folks doing their exercises looked like the living dead.

I recall that Gaylen Ross said in the Euro commentary that they had a similar senior exercise program at Monroeville when they were filming DOTD in 1978, and one morning after they wrapped for the previous night's shooting she went up to a person who she assumed was one of the zombie extras still in makeup and told them that they had wrapped and that they could remove the ghoul makeup, but then was very embarrassed to find out that the person was not with their production and in fact was one of the seniors who came to the mall to exercise in the morning. :lol:

So if they had the program during the shoot, then Food's point about seniors getting attacked in the mall while doing their morning exercises totally makes sense for 1978.

[SRP76]

I doubt it's possible that the old farts would be eaten. Before letting people in for the morning, the power would be turned on. Since it was off when the heroes arrived, it would have to be in reverse order. Turned off the lights, then never quite made it to the doors. That would be at the end of a day, not the start.

Odd that we only see one security guard in the movie. I'm assuming there was a whole fleet of them though, just offscreen. It wouldn't make much sense to stick just one dude with securing the entire complex.

[venom012]

The mall may have had a movie theater in it and thus the common area of the mall would still be unlocked and full of people catching the late show.

[FoodFight]

I doubt it's possible that the old farts would be eaten. Before letting people in for the morning, the power would be turned on. Since it was off when the heroes arrived, it would have to be in reverse order. Turned off the lights, then never quite made it to the doors. That would be at the end of a day, not the start.

Odd that we only see one security guard in the movie. I'm assuming there was a whole fleet of them though, just offscreen. It wouldn't make much sense to stick just one dude with securing the entire complex.

Actually, we're only aware of 1 guard. It's entirely possible that the attack commenced in the morning, the guard in question was injured and ran for the generator room and threw the breakers (people do strange things under stress). Other guards were tasked with securing the perimeter (and weren't successful) and either died or fled. Possibly part of their disaster plan called for a power shutdown which would also explain the lack of electricity. Said guard felt safer in the windowless dark room, succumbed to his injuries, rose from the dead and did his zombie thing when flyboy approached.

[sandrock74]

I always wondered what had happened there prior to our heroes arriving. I never thought anyone was killed and eaten at the mall for the simple reason that there was NO bloodstains ANYWHERE to be seen! Not one. The mall was in pristine condition when they found it.
To me, that was the hard part to explain. It looked like the mall was shut down for the night and then promptly abandonded. No one even bothered to lock the exterior doors.
Also, no zombies were initially on the second floor, so it seemed like they weren't even there too long. Almost like they had recently wandered in themselves.
What do you all think?

[EvilNed]

I always wondered what had happened there prior to our heroes arriving. I never thought anyone was killed and eaten at the mall for the simple reason that there was NO bloodstains ANYWHERE to be seen! Not one. The mall was in pristine condition when they found it.
To me, that was the hard part to explain. It looked like the mall was shut down for the night and then promptly abandonded. No one even bothered to lock the exterior doors.
Also, no zombies were initially on the second floor, so it seemed like they weren't even there too long. Almost like they had recently wandered in themselves.
What do you all think?

This is what I always figured myself. I don't think the mall was ever attacked. I think that one morning, the security guards arrived and unlocked the mall, and then got a call from their employer telling them that due to the current crisis, the Mall would be closed for an indefinite amount of time. And so the security guards just bailed.

Or something to that effect.

[SRP76]

That does seem odd that there is no "sign of struggle".

But I think that's just because of the filmmaking problem of money and permission to splash blood and gore all over the mall. I think an attack had to have happened. Why? Because of three things:

1. "Maintenance zombie". The one that jumps Roger. For him to exist in the first place, someone would have had to croak in a locked department store. It doesn't make a lick of sense for someone to lock themselves inside a store and die there, unless they have to (like, for instance, leaving the store would get them eaten).

2. In the script (not shown onscreen, but it proves intent of the storywriter), the mall manager locked himself in his office and shot himself. Why would he do that, unless he was trapped in there for some reason (like zombies roaming the mall)?

3. "Security zombie". The one that bumrushed Flyboy. This dude was clearly attacked at some point. The most obvious suspect would be zombies.

[Philly_SWAT]

I really like it when someone brings up a topic I had never thought of before. As is the case here, I never thought about the stores being closed but the main doors being open, good thought SRP76! Of course, the easy answer to that point, and others addressed here, is that GAR simply didnt put that much thought into it. Of course, that isnt a very fun answer, so lets look at the movie itself....


I always wondered what had happened there prior to our heroes arriving. I never thought anyone was killed and eaten at the mall for the simple reason that there was NO bloodstains ANYWHERE to be seen! Not one. The mall was in pristine condition when they found it.
You are correct that there are no signs of any types of attack/struggle within the mall. Therefore, for some reason, the main door were unlocked before any of the stores doors were, or the store doors were locked and the main doors never got locked. Either of these two scenarios could be correct, however, the first one seems more likely. If there was no attack in the mall, the only reason people would leave without locking the outer doors would be they received word about the outbreak and were told to leave. However, upon hearing these initial reports, it would seem not believeable that the dead were rising and attacking the living, so while security/others might be more than willing to leave work, it seems unlikely they would be in fear of an attack, especially since none were happening at the mall at the time. Therefore, there would no reason to NOT lock the outer doors as well. So it seems logical that the mall doors were opened early, and then the store doors never got opened. This is a good an explanation as any:

This is what I always figured myself. I don't think the mall was ever attacked. I think that one morning, the security guards arrived and unlocked the mall, and then got a call from their employer telling them that due to the current crisis, the Mall would be closed for an indefinite amount of time. And so the security guards just bailed.

As far as the movie theater thought goes, many malls did used to have theaters open while the rest of the mall was closed, so it is plausible that this could have been the case in Dawn. However, there is not, and never was, a theater in the Monroeville Mall, so surely GAR would not have used this process (again, if he used any at all) to explain the main door/store door issue. We are shown no theater in the movie, it seems as if our heros would have watched some movies, as there were DVD players in existence, and if VHS/BETA were in existence, there use was still sparse. We dont see any in the mall in any event. So although you could say that just because we arent shown a theater doesnt mean there wasnt one, there is in fact no real reason to think that there was one.

As far as the "old people exercising" in the mall theory goes, that program was in fact in place back when the movie was made, including at the Monroeville Mall. But this is not relevant here, as even if they opened the main doors for this purpose, we still need more explanation as to why the stores were never opened with no sign of attack.

Couple of more points:

Odd that we only see one security guard in the movie. I'm assuming there was a whole fleet of them though, just offscreen. It wouldn't make much sense to stick just one dude with securing the entire complex.
I dont find that odd at all. I have been going to many malls for decades now, and rarely have I ever seen a security guard. Yes I have seen them, but hardly ever. Sometimes just the illusion of security is the only reason companies hire guards. I mean, what is an unarmed guard really going to do? And even if armed, do you think a low paid armed guard is going to open fire in a crowded mall? I dont think so.

Before letting people in for the morning, the power would be turned on. Since it was off when the heroes arrived, it would have to be in reverse order. Turned off the lights, then never quite made it to the doors. That would be at the end of a day, not the start.I see what you are saying here, but I disagree. The power was NOT off when our heros arrived. The control panel (hit em all, we may as well have power in everything) was not the main electrical power. It was to the fountains, escalators, and displays. Any mall leaves power on when the place is empty. Whether is it summer or winter, you cant have no power on at night, to where it is sweltering or freezing when you open the doors for customers. And most malls, and the stores themselves, leave lights on when closed, I assume so that security and/or cops driving by can see inside. If it was it pitch black, it would be easier for thieves to be inside up to mischief without being seen.

And last few points:

That does seem odd that there is no "sign of struggle".

But I think that's just because of the filmmaking problem of money and permission to splash blood and gore all over the mall. I think an attack had to have happened. Why? Because of three things:

1. "Maintenance zombie". The one that jumps Roger. For him to exist in the first place, someone would have had to croak in a locked department store. It doesn't make a lick of sense for someone to lock themselves inside a store and die there, unless they have to (like, for instance, leaving the store would get them eaten).
The real reason of course, is that this scene was thrown in at the last second to explain a continuity problem with Roger not having the jacket tied to his waist anymore (with no thought given to "why is someone inside the locked store?") But for a real world explanation, it is not unreasonable to think that a maintenance guy would be inside a store doing maintenance while the store in closed. He fell off a ladder, cracked his head open, and died.


2. In the script (not shown onscreen, but it proves intent of the storywriter), the mall manager locked himself in his office and shot himself. Why would he do that, unless he was trapped in there for some reason (like zombies roaming the mall)?
I dont remember this in the script, but it must be there if you mention it. I would say that is also believable that he just committed suicide, either due to knowledge of the zombie outbreak, or at the news that a loved one had just been attacked and killed. Or even non-outbreak related, he just committed suicide. People do it all the time.

3. "Security zombie". The one that bumrushed Flyboy. This dude was clearly attacked at some point. The most obvious suspect would be zombies.There are several reasonable explanations as to how he could have been attacked that would not be zombie related. Or he could have just been drunk and cracked his head and died. Also, it is also possible that he had already been killed off mall property, wandered inside just like the other zombies in the mall, and found his way to the security office. Just as Flyboy "remembered" there was a fake wall and tore it down, that could have been an actual Monroeville Mall security guy who got off work, got killed (many different ways this could happen) before changing out of his work clothes, and wandered back to a familiar place (he didnt know WHY he went to the security office, he just knew he wanted to be in there...)

[jim102016]

I always assumed there was some sort of struggle at the mall before the group arrived. How do you account for the guy laying on the escalator with the hole in his head? He must have been dead and walking when shot because the other undead shamblers ignore him; they step over him once the power is turned on and the moving stairs are once again operational.

Who killed him? As I recall, Peter and Roger hadn't fired a shot in the mall yet?

[sandrock74]

I always assumed there was some sort of struggle at the mall before the group arrived. How do you account for the guy laying on the escalator with the hole in his head? He must have been dead and walking when shot because the other undead shamblers ignore him; they step over him once the power is turned on and the moving stairs are once again operational.

Who killed him? As I recall, Peter and Roger hadn't fired a shot in the mall yet?

I had always assumed he was one of the zombies in the mall and, being a typical clumsy zombie, he misbalanced and fell over, striking his head, when the escalator was turned on. There wasn't a hole in his head, it was just blood, like from a head injury, like a fall.

That's always been my take at least.

[hadrian0117]

...We are shown no theater in the movie, it seems as if our heros would have watched some movies, as there were DVD players in existence, and if VHS/BETA were in existence, there use was still sparse...

There were no DVD players in 1978. VHS and Betamax were very new, very expensive products. I'm not sure if they'd even be available at a mall in small-town PA. They did spend alot of time watching TV, but it was to emergency broadcasts. It's been awhile since I read the novelization; wasn't there a movie theatre in it?

[FoodFight]

As far as the "old people exercising" in the mall theory goes, that program was in fact in place back when the movie was made, including at the Monroeville Mall. But this is not relevant here, as even if they opened the main doors for this purpose, we still need more explanation as to why the stores were never opened with no sign of attack

Actually, it is relevant, as the walkers are allowed in before the businesses open, just as i stated in my first post in this thread. My view is that the mall was vacated between the opening of the main doors and the business openings-a small window indeed.

As to the evidence of attack, it may have happened in the parking lot, giving people cause to exit elsewhere. Therefore, no blood on the premises and a relative lack of shamblers on the inside.

Actually I think it's more of a convenient plot device to allow the main characters unfettered access to the gunshop and to avoid the necessity of clearing every store.

[sandrock74]

There were no DVD players in 1978. VHS and Betamax were very new, very expensive products. I'm not sure if they'd even be available at a mall in small-town PA. They did spend alot of time watching TV, but it was to emergency broadcasts. It's been awhile since I read the novelization; wasn't there a movie theatre in it?

And they were watching black and white televisions at that! I know color televisions were around by then obviously, but technology wise, we've come leaps and bounds since then!

[krakenslayer]

There were no DVD players in 1978. VHS and Betamax were very new, very expensive products. I'm not sure if they'd even be available at a mall in small-town PA. They did spend alot of time watching TV, but it was to emergency broadcasts. It's been awhile since I read the novelization; wasn't there a movie theatre in it?

Go back and watch the movie again. In the later scenes, before the raiders arrive, when they have filled their living space with luxury furnishings and items scavenged from the mall, there is a large top-loading videocassette player beneath their TV set.

I think it's possible that the mall was attacked during the day, while the mall was open. Probably during the same day that Johnnie and Barbra were driving to the cemetery, when things were just starting to go wrong. Think about it, there doesn't even have to be a struggle, no one was really thinking of shopping when such a national emergency was taking place - a lot of stores might have closed due to staff failing to show up for work, a couple of stores (and therefore the mall itself) might have open their doors but very few customers came in... Then, in the afternoon, when the mall was almost deserted apart from a few store workers, security, and some die-hard customers, some zombies shambled through the front doors. The security guys closed the shutters and locked down the stores to keep the walkers from advancing any further into the mall, and then evacuated the remaining staff and customers via emergency exits. Maybe one security guard got bitten and became the boiler room zombie, but everyone else got out okay and took off home to be with their families.

Or maybe word came through the emergency networks to go to rescue stations and "leave your places of residence, no matter how secure or well stocked". The security guards who were looking after the place said "fsck this!" and hit the highway without bothering to lock the doors.

[sandrock74]

I think that its pretty clear that when the mall was evacuated(?) or abandonded(?), everything was shut down but no one bothered to lock the outer doors. Whoops!

I had always imagined that the mall was in the process of being locked down and everyone (workers) sent away until such time that the national crisis had passed. I figured that they clearly got the interior stores locked up but then something happened to make everyone take a powder before locking down the mall proper (i.e. the outer doors). Something that caused everyone to panic and run for it. The lack of signs of an attack made me think it was something they saw, rather than experienced.

I always figured someone saw a few zombies out in the parking lot and they started to panic and it spread and everyone ended up running for it. A "screw the mall" mentality quickly spread as everyone essentially abandoned their post and ran for their cars and left. Well...everyone except the janitor in Penneys and the security guard in the boiler room.

They could have been the "loyalists" who were trying to see their job thru to the end or could have offered to stay behind to let everyone else escape. One of them got bit, turned and attacked the other.

These events would explain the outer doors unlocked, the pristine condition of the mall and the two zombies in "safe" areas of the mall. That's all I have ever been able to come up with. I could be all wrong.

[EvilNed]

They could have been the "loyalists" who were trying to see their job thru to the end or could have offered to stay behind to let everyone else escape. One of them got bit, turned and attacked the other.

A loyalist janitor? :p

After that damn Sharpe-marathon I just had, I just picture a die-hard disciplined Janitor, with the code of honor of a stereotypical officer. "Duty above all else!" he barks as he refuses to stop cleaning the floors, despite the numerous zombies closing in on him.

[sandrock74]

A loyalist janitor? :p

After that damn Sharpe-marathon I just had, I just picture a die-hard disciplined Janitor, with the code of honor of a stereotypical officer. "Duty above all else!" he barks as he refuses to stop cleaning the floors, despite the numerous zombies closing in on him.

Good point.
Maybe he was "special" and didn't understand the danger? Who knows.

[Philly_SWAT]

Originally Posted by Philly_SWAT
...We are shown no theater in the movie, it seems as if our heros would have watched some movies, as there were DVD players in existence, and if VHS/BETA were in existence, there use was still sparse...


There were no DVD players in 1978. VHS and Betamax were very new, very expensive products. I'm not sure if they'd even be available at a mall in small-town PA. They did spend alot of time watching TV, but it was to emergency broadcasts. It's been awhile since I read the novelization; wasn't there a movie theatre in it?

That was a mis-type on my part, which I would think the context of what I was saying would point out. I meant to type as there were NO DVD players in existence.

[SRP76]

We can nail down a date.

The attack on the mall (or lack of it) happened in late September or early October.

I don't have my DVD anymore, so someone's going to have to help me out here (get busy, people. :D):

When Roger and Peter are fumbling through the control station (where they get the keys), you can see a hand-written highschool football schedule propped up on the desk. We see that the first few games are marked as wins or losses, with scores. This means someone was there, following the local team. The collapse had to happen sometime after the last "updated" game.

Anyone with the DVD handy can check that scene, and tell us exactly when it happened...

EDIT- I just checked the version that's on youtube, and it's way too blurry to see anything. So a home DVD is the only way we'll get to the bottom of this.

[ProfessorChaos]

*to the rescue*

from this scene you are talking about, the football schedule has pencil marks next to every date until november 4th. there is something blocking the rest of the schedule, but there are two lines that read "parents' night" and "homecoming". hard to tell if those two events were taking place during the next two games or if those were just notes added at the bottom of the schedule.

so, we're looking at sometime after november 4th.

[SRP76]

Alright, that sounds about right. Assuming the November 4 game had a result, the great break-in had to happen the night of November 5 at the earliest (which would be a Saturday night; highschool football is played on Friday nights).

This would put our heroes' arrival about 3 weeks later (given the movie-opening rant), in late November (around the 26th or 27th). That would fit pretty well with Fran's pregnancy and homemade calendar we see later.

[Yojimbo]

Alright, that sounds about right. Assuming the November 4 game had a result, the great break-in had to happen the night of November 5 at the earliest (which would be a Saturday night; highschool football is played on Friday nights).

This would put our heroes' arrival about 3 weeks later (given the movie-opening rant), in late November (around the 26th or 27th). That would fit pretty well with Fran's pregnancy and homemade calendar we see later.
But we are assuming that the calendar was up to date at the time of the breakdown/break-in. I have seen lots of maintenance rooms with out of date calendars still up on the walls, albeit usually because the lecherous janitor likes to tool-girl on that particular calendar, but still.

One of the things I wonder about is what the hell is the Ruger Blackhawk .22 that Stephen finds in the maintenance room desk doing there? Is it always there? Was it there for the crisis? I used to think that maybe it was the security officers, but a single action .22 seems a rather odd security piece.

[sandrock74]

Alright, that sounds about right. Assuming the November 4 game had a result, the great break-in had to happen the night of November 5 at the earliest (which would be a Saturday night; highschool football is played on Friday nights).

This would put our heroes' arrival about 3 weeks later (given the movie-opening rant), in late November (around the 26th or 27th). That would fit pretty well with Fran's pregnancy and homemade calendar we see later.

Huh...so our heroes would have come across the mall on or around Thanksgiving then.

[bassman]

Perhaps the stores were locked and the mall itself was unlocked because it was an abandoned rescue station like all the others we hear about at the beginning of the film? Just a thought...

I always assumed that other people had tried(and failed) to survive in the mall before our four heroes got there. Or maybe the security guard or some other zombie unlocked the mall with their past memories?

[sandrock74]

Perhaps the stores were locked and the mall itself was unlocked because it was an abandoned rescue station like all the others we hear about at the beginning of the film? Just a thought...

I always assumed that other people had tried(and failed) to survive in the mall before our four heroes got there. Or maybe the security guard or some other zombie unlocked the mall with their past memories?

Thats a lot of unlocking then! I guess Bub and Big Daddy were there to guide them along. :)

[SRP76]

That couldn't have happened. The keys to the locks were on the keyring that Roger found in the control room. No amount of "they evolve" is going to convince me that a zombie got the keyring, went around the mall unlocking all the main doors, then shambled back to the control room, and left the keyring right where it belongs. And then toddled off again, back into the mall. No way in hell.

[Yojimbo]

That couldn't have happened. The keys to the locks were on the keyring that Roger found in the control room. No amount of "they evolve" is going to convince me that a zombie got the keyring, went around the mall unlocking all the main doors, then shambled back to the control room, and left the keyring right where it belongs. And then toddled off again, back into the mall. No way in hell.
Agree there!

Maintenance dude (who got shanked with the screwdriver) probably had his own set, got bitten at some point in the mall and then locked himself in Pennys to get away from the few ghouls outside, then likely died and reanimated while locked inside. So perhaps he had a set of keys, which would make sense if he were the mall maintenance dude.

Since the power to a lot of the mall fixtures (fountains, common area displays, etc) was shut off, but the doors still open, I agree with those who say the mall likely was abandoned in the evening, during that window of time between the stores closing and the outer doors being locked.

[bassman]

It was just an idea. Besides....I'm sure there is more than just one set of keys to each mall.

"Hey Frank....someone locked the keys inside of Pennys!!"

"Ahhhh....f*ck! This mall is OVER!"

:p

[SRP76]

We need better names for these zombies. "Maintenance Guy" doesn't cut it.

How about these:

Security Zombie (shot by Stephen) = "Cap'n"

Maintenance Zombie (screwdrivered by Roger) = "Pierce"

[sandrock74]

We need better names for these zombies. "Maintenance Guy" doesn't cut it.

How about these:

Security Zombie (shot by Stephen) = "Cap'n"

Maintenance Zombie (screwdrivered by Roger) = "Pierce"

How about Maintenance Zombie = "Screw Face" (with apologies to Marked For Death) :)

[Thorn]

Go back and watch the movie again. In the later scenes, before the raiders arrive, when they have filled their living space with luxury furnishings and items scavenged from the mall, there is a large top-loading videocassette player beneath their TV set.

I think it's possible that the mall was attacked during the day, while the mall was open. Probably during the same day that Johnnie and Barbra were driving to the cemetery, when things were just starting to go wrong. Think about it, there doesn't even have to be a struggle, no one was really thinking of shopping when such a national emergency was taking place - a lot of stores might have closed due to staff failing to show up for work, a couple of stores (and therefore the mall itself) might have open their doors but very few customers came in... Then, in the afternoon, when the mall was almost deserted apart from a few store workers, security, and some die-hard customers, some zombies shambled through the front doors. The security guys closed the shutters and locked down the stores to keep the walkers from advancing any further into the mall, and then evacuated the remaining staff and customers via emergency exits. Maybe one security guard got bitten and became the boiler room zombie, but everyone else got out okay and took off home to be with their families.

Or maybe word came through the emergency networks to go to rescue stations and "leave your places of residence, no matter how secure or well stocked". The security guards who were looking after the place said "fsck this!" and hit the highway without bothering to lock the doors.

I feel that this is very much possible as is the theory that the mall was opened to mall walkers in the morning but no stores were open. Mall walking programs opened early, no stores were open. Maintenance crews at least in my mall worked at night, and early morning to avoid inconvenience to shoppers. You tended to have a skeleton security staff ((let's be honest what are eleven 70 year old people going to do to you?)).

My first thought when reading this excellent post was Mall walkers, and if things started to get ugly. One person biting people that is not an all out gore fest you would expect. Maybe one zombie came to the mall the one who attacked roger in the store, and bit the maintenance man. The maintenance man calls security as they think he is a drugged out psychotic, they lock him in the store as they can not get him under control and he in injuring people. The Let's say the maintenance man is infected, not knowing the nature of the outbreak or how it is spread he is not guaranteed. The security guard evacuates the mall walkers for their safety but does not in his haste or state of panic (he is not a police officer, or military but a security guard in a mall no offense I am sure some are excellent) he does not lock some/all of the doors preventing access to the mall. Or when he goes to more zombies show up and he understands how severe the situation is. He attempts to flee, but becomes infected. Either by the maintenance guy, a new arrival, or was injured in the struggle with the initial zombie who showed up. He and the maintence guy go their own ways after talking about it, or not and slowly succumb to the virus/plague/condition and die.

:shifty:

[AcesandEights]

The idea of mall walkers don't actively factor into the scenario for me, as mall walking, as an early morning fitness routine and pastime, didn't really make a cultural impact in the US and have an acknowledged presence till the early 1980s (much, much later in the UK, I believe).

Anyway, there's tons of ways that make sense and I don't really see this as nitpicking the film, as it's not actually addressing a critical flaw in the film, only what some people may perceive (incorrectly in my estimation) as a possible flaw.

Really, just because a minor plot detail isn't hammered out and served to us on a silver platter doesn't make it an error. But, yeah, it's an interesting topic.

[bassman]

Really, just because a minor plot detail isn't hammered out and served to us on a silver platter doesn't make it an error. But, yeah, it's an interesting topic.

HOLD UP! Don't you trot in here being all high and mighty with your logic and common sense. That's not allowed 'round these ere parts!:p

[FoodFight]

The man wanted nitpicky....nitpicky he shall have!

AcesandEights wrote:

The idea of mall walkers don't actively factor into the scenario for me, as mall walking, as an early morning fitness routine and pastime, didn't really make a cultural impact in the US and have an acknowledged presence till the early 1980s (much, much later in the UK, I believe).


As Yojimbo wrote, mallwalking was in effect in the very mall and at the time that Dawn was being filmed. To my mind, that elevates the possiblity of a morning situation to an even higher degree.

Timelines aside, if the options of a totally locked-down mall (no undead inside) or a completely open (necessitating a total house-cleaning), the final storyline is much more interesting IMHO.

[Yojimbo]

I should point out that the novelization GAR did with Sparrow (not that it has anything to really do with the movie, I know) has a few of the shops with their gates still open, including the gun shop (which then allows a gag to occur with Stephen shooting ghoul in the open shop with a crossbow he grabs off of a display)

Not sure what this implies in the scope of this discussion, however, since it could be that the ghouls started to show up in the window of time after the stores were in the process of closing for the evening, or it could be argued that the mall was in the process of being opened for business in the morning when it went bad.

[SRP76]

Hm. Well, we do actually get something like that onscreen. Peter says "most of the gates are down. I don't think they can get into the stores."

Most. So, maybe the mall isn't totally locked up. That could support the thing in the novel to a degree.

[Philly_SWAT]

We need better names for these zombies. "Maintenance Guy" doesn't cut it.

How about these:

Security Zombie (shot by Stephen) = "Cap'n"

Maintenance Zombie (screwdrivered by Roger) = "Pierce"

The maintenance zombie is commonly referred to as the "screwdriver zombie". Not overly original, yes, however, you immediately know which one it is, and he only has about 30 seconds of screen time anyway. Or you could just call him "The composer of the Day of the Dead score" zombie! ;)

[bassman]

Or you could just call him "The composer of the Day of the Dead score" zombie! ;)


:lol:

Now that would make things even more confusing. Like you said, I've always called him screwdriver zombie. That's pretty much how I name all of them. Gun zombie, baseball zombie, escalator zombie, dumbass nurse zombie(I kid, I kid. I just don't like her zombie walk/look), fat swimmer zombie, etc.

[Yojimbo]

I was thinking:

Maybe the mall was abandoned in the evening during security lockdown because a few zombies showed up and there were radio and TV reports telling folks to flee to rescue stations.

During this initial bugout, Maintenance/Screwdriver dude gets bitten, runs to Pennys and locks himself in for protection. Security Guards abandon the lockdown detail and flee - one of them gets a chunk taken out of him by an errant zombie while he attempts to get it in a chokehold after seeing it attack maintainence dude (which really pissed off Boiler Room/Security dude because him and Maintenance/Screwdriver dude were drinking/smoking buddies)

The night passes, with only a few singular zombies in the mall. One of the zombies, a young lad, loses his footing on the escalator and tumbles down, snapping his neck in the process and shutting off all signals to his brain. A nurse zombie enters the building, some dude in a snazzy sweater, and a member of the Arco Pitcairn Softball Team who had died days ago, his last thought on his mind as his life slipped away was of his girlfriend who worked at Lane Bryant and how he just had to see her one more time. Being miles away from the mall, it took him several days to get there.

The next morning, a bunch of senior citizens, having not tuned into radio or television over the past few weeks (because they are old folks who shun modern conveniences) show up to the mall to do their morning walk. Boy, are they surprised to see other folks there already walking. "Hello" an old lady says to a sweater wearing balding guy who looks a lot like her nephew from New York, and he turns around and promptly makes a grab for her, ripping at her clothing.

"Oh, no, Gertrude is being attacked by that awful young man!" screams another senior, who promptly attempts to help Gertrude by swatting ineffectively at the sweater wearing bald dude with her rolled up copy of Playgirl (she is a very progressive senior!) and soon it becomes obvious that something is terribly wrong with this picture. One of the seniors succumb to a heart attack while the others flee in panic.

Days later, a helicopter approaches the mall.

"What the hell is it?" a voice asks.

"Looks like one of those indoor shopping malls" a reply comes, as the helicopter makes it way to a landing pad conveniently located on the rooftop of the mall.

And now you know the rest of the story.

[SRP76]

I swear the one on the escalator was 1) a woman, and 2) shot. Wound right in the forehead, with the blood runner down her nose.

I'm heading to youtube to check again...

[Yojimbo]

I swear the one on the escalator was 1) a woman, and 2) shot. Wound right in the forehead, with the blood runner down her nose.

I'm heading to youtube to check again...
Yeah, I thought so too, but haven't checked my copy yet to see if there was a bullet hole. I do remember blood, at the very least. Though, I do think it was a boy and not a woman.

[clanglee]

:lol::lol::lol:

Great stuff Jimbo!!!

[Yojimbo]

:lol::lol::lol:

Great stuff Jimbo!!!
Thanks brother! And happy new year in Rockhill!

[SRP76]

Damn, too dark and blurry on youtube. We'll need another DVD check. Definitely looks like a gunshot to the head, though.

Oh, and another thing pointing to night, not morning: the lights were out in the mall. It was dark, only light coming from the huge skylight in the roof. I doubt they would have opened the mall for some old people to fumble around in darkness at 6AM.

[clanglee]

Thanks brother! And happy new year in Rockhill!

You too my man!!

[FoodFight]

Oh, and another thing pointing to night, not morning: the lights were out in the mall. It was dark, only light coming from the huge skylight in the roof. I doubt they would have opened the mall for some old people to fumble around in darkness at 6AM.

So you're saying that it must have happened at night because the lights were off?

[SRP76]

So you're saying that it must have happened at night because the lights were off?

Yes. They don't open up to let people stagger around in the dark. They'd turn the lights on before unlocking the doors for the public.

[sandrock74]

Yes. They don't open up to let people stagger around in the dark. They'd turn the lights on before unlocking the doors for the public.

True that! By the way, Happy New Year everybody!

[FoodFight]

Let me reiterate my point. "So you're saying that it must have happened at NIGHT because the LIGHTS were OFF." The lights would have been on at night as well.

Anyhow, the light wouldn't give evidence either way, as (you stated) it would have been turned on prior to opening, but it also would have been on until after closing. It should have been on in either case. Unless, of course, the lights were on a timer.

[Yojimbo]

Maybe: It's nightime, and the zombies are starting to show up. Security officer gets a big bite from a zombie on the first floor. He panics, running up the escalator to the second floor, ducks into the boiler room and shuts down power to the escalators in a desperate attempt to keep the second flood inaccessible to the zombies, but then also plunging the mall into virtual darkness with the exception of a few emergency lights. He soon succumbs to his injuries, only to revive and wander around the dark boiler room until Stephen shows up.

One of the things I have often wondered about was during the Motorcycle Raid why did the mall lights shut off? Guess it is possible that it was on a timer that can be superceded by flipping the switch in the control room, or did the lights just blow a fuse? Or was it Peter or Steven that shut off the lights to make the evening a little more difficult for the raiders?

[FoodFight]

That's reasonable. The security zombie could have done any number of things regarding the power prior to his death. But if we're going with a early November timeframe, the lights should have been on in either a night or morning scenario. That's why I don't think the power would show which scenario is more valid.

Funny, I was just thinking about a plate of shrimp....:D

[Yojimbo]

Funny, I was just thinking about a plate of shrimp....:D
No reason. No sense in looking for one either. ;)

[Philly_SWAT]

That's reasonable. The security zombie could have done any number of things regarding the power prior to his death. But if we're going with a early November timeframe, the lights should have been on in either a night or morning scenario. That's why I don't think the power would show which scenario is more valid.

Funny, I was just thinking about a plate of shrimp....:D

Everyone keeps saying that the lights were off....the lights were on.

[sandrock74]

Everyone keeps saying that the lights were off....the lights were on.

Yeah, I was trying to figure out why everyone was saying the lights were off? Clearly, they were on.

[SRP76]

Everyone keeps saying that the lights were off....the lights were on.

Where? When they look down into the mall through the skylight, the place is sunlit, and that's it. There is no light. If they're on, those are the darkest lights I've ever seen anywhere.

[sandrock74]

Maybe security zombie was randomly flipping the main power switch?

[ProfessorChaos]

i think we may have gone past the nitpicking stage into something much more severe...:confused: