Game of Thrones (TV series) excitement

[bassman]

Tyrion negotiates with Monty Python:

eVyxnMM3ldc

:lol:

[MinionZombie]

Ah, the Holy Grail is always good for a mash-up. :D

Well, that was quite an episode!!!


So I was wrong about the end of Cersei, but the way she went out was quite satisfying. It was sad to see Jaime revert to her when he'd had a chance at something better, but evidently he didn't feel like he deserved it, and deep down his love for Cersei burned too brightly. To seem them (but especially her) crushed beneath her empire was delicious. There was an element of Shakespearean tragedy to those two and it was a fitting end, albeit a hard blow for fans of Jaime who turned his back on the chance at something better.

It seems like Arya will be facing off with Dany now, who has gone full blown Mad Queen and committed heinous atrocities. Absolute power corrupts absolutely, and such is the case here. There have been some fans whining about that, but it's in-built with the Targaryen bloodline (hence the Mad King), and it's been quite an arc. She started out being traded to Drogo, gained power (and dragons), became a benevolent freer of the enslaved, but the realities of ruling in her fashion started to compromise her, and now she's full blown gone over to the dark side as it were. It was nice to see Arya turn away from death and revenge (when The Hound successfully discouraged her from following him to their deaths), and towards life in her attempt to save those people, but events have conspired to turn her back towards death and revenge. Hopefully she'll succeed in taking out Dany and make it out alive, and perhaps Jon will help her out.

Lots of deaths in this one. 'Clegane Bowl' was awesome. If The Battle of Winterfell was World War II, then The Battle of King's Landing (really the Massacre of King's Landing) was akin to Vietnam.

[Moon Knight]

Well, that was quite the heel turn.

[MinionZombie]

Well, that was quite the heel turn.


Do you mean regarding Dany becoming a Mad Queen?

Well, I wouldn't say that. We've seen hints of this coming since about season 6, if not earlier, with certain decisions she made skewing more towards making people fear her than love her or respect her. She's been driven nuts with this quest for the Iron Throne. The news about Jon Snow's real lineage is one of several things to push her right over the edge (along with the death of another dragon as well as Missandei ... who, let's be honest, can now get fucked because of her "Dracaris" final word to Dany. Missandei is as a result partly responsible for every innocent life lost in King's Landing.

It's a poisoned chalice in some ways and I think it's quite a satisfying arc to see this once lowly figure rise up only to knock herself down with the trappings of power and corrupt everything she had stood for.

[Moon Knight]

Do you mean regarding Dany becoming a Mad Queen?

Well, I wouldn't say that. We've seen hints of this coming since about season 6, if not earlier, with certain decisions she made skewing more towards making people fear her than love her or respect her. She's been driven nuts with this quest for the Iron Throne. The news about Jon Snow's real lineage is one of several things to push her right over the edge (along with the death of another dragon as well as Missandei ... who, let's be honest, can now get fucked because of her "Dracaris" final word to Dany. Missandei is as a result partly responsible for every innocent life lost in King's Landing.

It's a poisoned chalice in some ways and I think it's quite a satisfying arc to see this once lowly figure rise up only to knock herself down with the trappings of power and corrupt everything she had stood for.


Oh I agree with everything you said. I found it funny how fans were criticizing the writers for turning that character mad in just two episodes lol.

That character arc definitely didn’t feel rushed to me.

[MinionZombie]

Oh I agree with everything you said. I found it funny how fans were criticizing the writers for turning that character mad in just two episodes lol.

That character arc definitely didn’t feel rushed to me.

Ugh, these fucking Twitter experts and their, ironically, rather lazy criticism about GoT.

Season 8 is, essentially, all third act - it's the third act of the entire show. We've had seven whole seasons building up to these last six episodes!

Yeah, there's an awful lot to get through, but "rushed"? Did they not see the first two episodes of the season? They complain about the Wight Walkers being dealth with quickly, as if we'd never had a skirmish or battle or encounter with the Wights before - erm ... except Hardhome, and the one where they went to capture a Wight, oh and the big ass battle at The Wall at the close of season 7. Sheesh!

Another thing - Arya's kill list and the different coloured eyes, another thing that was set up seasons ago when she met Melisandre at one point. It was then brought back in the library with new understanding of "blue eyes" being on the list of kills for Arya. Hell, the Clegane beef has been set up since season one and here, finally, in the penultimate episode we get Clegane Bowl and it was awesome.

Seems there's a lot of these vocal morons just pissed off their theories didn't pan out, meanwhile a lot of these decisions will have been built in from very early on, and are indeed written into the show. Bron asks Jamie how he'd like to die: "In the arms of the woman I love" he responded. That's exactly what he got. The end of Cersei was quite poetic, as I've previously said on here - literally crushed beneath her empire and not in some defiant last stand (she's Royalty, not a flippin' warrior FFS!) but with all her power and arrogance and support stripped away. Indeed, I would imagine that perhaps Arya (and maybe Jon) will be tasked now with taking down a different Queen - Dany.

Some other chumps complained that the dragons didn't do enough damage in 8x03 (nevermind the Wight Dragon, and the huge snow storm that made it almost impossible to fly about let alone see from any decent distance!), meanwhile in 8x06 they complain that the dragon was able to do too much damage!!! :rolleyes: Really? Christ on a bike!

It seems like the "cool" thing to do now - whine about GoT's final season ... and, indeed, use shitty little Tweets from chumps nobody's heard of, but who shout very loudly, to cobble together some crappy click bait 'article' blowing it up into a bigger thing.

I'm glad that season 8 is all killer and no filler. Does anyone remember the trudge fest that was season 5? You literally had Brienne sat on her arse for most of the season waiting for a candle in a window!!! It wasn't all duff, far from it, but by comparison to the rest of the show season 5 was the clear low point (relatively speaking). Ironic, too, that some of the people complaining about the writing are themselves incapable of stringing a sentence together. I'd love to see how they'd fare having to wrap up ten years worth of programming. The show's writers went from having these weighty tomes full of detail to having to write it according to just notes and GRRM's notions for what's to come (he's still writing the penultimate book).

[bassman]

I agree with yous fellas. The whining about this episode is so completely out of hand. If you don’t enjoy the episode or certain elements, that’s fine, but the overall notion of “they ruined the show!” is just batshit crazy. There were certain things that I wasn’t the biggest fan of, but I still found enjoyment with the episode and look forward to the next.

It’s also hilarious that people are saying Dany just flipped on a dime. Did they not listen and watch her character throughout the show?!? Her behavior was perfectly in line with everything that came before....

[kidgloves]

I have to say my instant reaction was to not like this and I still don't like it. I loved every episode up until this one but as soon it finished i felt like everything had been wasted. I know she flipped and the mad king etc but it was just wanton massacre that seemed out of place to me. I thought the white walker episode a couple of weeks ago was magnificent television for context. This one just felt like wrong decisions were made storywise and slightly out of character on every level.

[MinionZombie]

I was watching a video about the episode, on IGN or something like that I think, and they theorised that perhaps some of the 'turned on a dime' reactions are down to Dany being depicted too heroically in previous seasons as this powerful and positive figure. I can kinda see how some people would have that reaction to her, although we did see various moments along the way that questioned her ability to rule, her style of ruling etc ... I suppose it would have been nice for these recent episodes to be, say, ten minutes longer to allow for certain scenes (talky bits, essentially) to have a bit more room to discuss certain things.

For example, the talk between Tyrion and Varys about Dany, you could have had them explore her history a bit more, going to-and-fro in a pro/con kind of manner. The things she got right (reasons to stick by her) versus the things she got wrong (reasons to ditch her). Just a bit more context and some reminders for the audience ... although personally I've only watched each episode once and I've never watched the "story so far" specials, and I'm fine with the arc of her story.

[Moon Knight]

I’m more mad about Jamie’s long redemption arc leading nowhere. Now that was a waste.

[MinionZombie]

I’m more mad about Jamie’s long redemption arc leading nowhere. Now that was a waste.

Maybe it's the whole point, that his arc is supposed to end with tragedy? Cersei is his addiction, she was going to destroy him one way or another if he stuck around, and yeah, he got better by giving her up (or being forced to give her up due to circumstance), but then he couldn't resist. Not only did he refuse to accept that he deserved anything better after all the bad things he had done, but his love for Cersei (and addiction to her) was so strong that he couldn't stop himself from returning to her. Ultimately, that lead to his doom. Indeed, Cersei's actions over the course of the entire show lead to her demise as well.

[bassman]

When all said and done, I’m satisfied with the finale and series as a whole. Sure, there are things that I feel could and probably should have been handled differently, but that applies to just about every series in history. Sometimes you just have to take the negative along with the positive, I suppose.

I immediately saw “worst show EVER”, “sack them from Star Wars!”, and “petition to remake the season”-type complaining from the internet. It’s to be expected with anything, it just seems so amplified with this series being seen on such a large scale. As I’d said in the thread earlier, there’s a big difference between legit criticisms expressed in a healthy way(like we have here), to that sort of armchair filmmaker or “ownership” entitlement we’re seeing elsewhere.

Really, the finale was much more of the “happily ever after” variety than I’d expected. It all makes sense and worked for me, I just honestly expected more of a downer, sort of “the world can be an ugly place!” style ending for GOT. Keeping it generalized for now, more thoughts later after everyone has seen it....

[MinionZombie]

Well, I can certainly say I was left satisfied by the finale. :)


It's funny how certain whinges out there on the Interwebs were pre-emptive.

Waaaah - Jon didn't pat Ghost goodbye ... yeah, because he gets to pat him hello in this episode and have him by his side forever after. Patience, people!

Waaaah - Jon didn't kill the Night King ... yeah, 'cos Arya had that in her destiny, and Jon kills Dany, an act that is far more personal and harrowing and difficult, but one that totally lives up to his character: he protects the people from their future tyrant.

We even got the chance to explore Dany's methodology and context with Tyrion laying out that it was all well and good her taking down bad men, but that whole endeavour entrenched the worst parts of her character. Now, we saw glimpses of her bad side and her mistakes, although perhaps they could have done a slightly better job highlighting the danger of Dany, as she did kind of get played as a heroine for a long time (loads of people who named their children Daenarys might be regretting their hasty choice, lol).

I loved Drogon destroying the Iron Throne and then flying off into the ether with Dany, as if they were remnants of history passing into legend. So much destruction and death and hatred all caused by the Iron Throne - and now it's gone, that symbol of the old order.

I was a bit iffy on Bran being picked initially, but as the episode continued it then made total sense. He's almost like a God in some ways, and with him possessing all that knowledge of their entire history, he's an ideal candidate and furthermore because he didn't want to be ruler, something which they'd set up earlier with Jon not wanting to be ruler ... speaking of which, it was nice to see that he found his own freedom. He got a raw deal, but he was reunited with Tormund and the Free Folk (and Ghost!) and found a new life as, perhaps, a leader of a small group, which is entirely his sort of thing. Jon was never suited for ruling, and it was good to see that that whole idea of being born into it was dismissed.

Indeed, they installed an early form of democracy, and they did begin what Dany - when she was good - had wanted: to change the order of things. No more inheritance of the throne, for example, with a new ruler chosen each generation. It was also nice to see that, for the most part, the good people got what they wanted or earned something fair. Bronn is a bit of a schemer and a rogue, kind of the sore thumb of the table, but with Brienne, Podraig, Davos (soooooo glad he survived it all!), Sam, and Tyrion you've got a good bunch. There was a bit of bickering there, but it was kind of in jest and you'll never get rid of all of that sort of thing anyway.

The North being their own independent land made sense and I'm cool with Sansa being Queen of the North. I wouldn't have liked her on the Throne as she would not have been suited to it, nor had she earned such a thing, but I think it's fair where she ended up. Arya becoming an explorer was nice as well, so it's good that these characters you can rally behind ended up in a happy place. After so much bloodshed it's nice to have a relatively happy ending, even King's Landing is going to get sewers at long last, haha!

[Moon Knight]

I overall liked the finale and loved the series as a whole.

I’m really gonna miss GoT.

[MinionZombie]

I overall liked the finale and loved the series as a whole.

I’m really gonna miss GoT.

Aye, you get used to having new episodes always coming up at some point, and the lingering questions of who's going to survive and who'll get the throne in the end, so when it's all sewn up there is a little void in your the entertainment part of your noggin.

Hopefully the prequel series will be as good!

Ooh - another bit I really liked in this episode:

When Brienne fills in the pages on Jamie Lannister. That goes way back in the series when he was mocked for his meagre deeds compared to the raft of stuff attached to the names of others in that book, so it was nice to get that to come full circle and see his full history laid out.

It was also a nice, albeit sad, moment when Tyrion found Jamie and Cersei dead together in the rubble. That last scene between Tyrion and Jamie was rather moving!


Comparison video of Dany's Throne vision and the finale.
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[Neil]

I thought the last episode was pretty scrappy TBH. Very paint by numbers, seemingly just ticking the plot boxes as it went. Ultimately the last two episodes just felt rather rush, and the last one in particular was no where as well written as episodes in Season 1-6/7...

Just a bit average compared to the rest of the seasons :(

[shootemindehead]

Just finished of GoT. Thought the last series was pretty great over all, and included some of the best tele I've seen in ages and was a fitting end to one of the greatest shows ever made.

People were moaning about this why?

[Neil]

Just finished of GoT. Thought the last series was pretty great over all, and included some of the best tele I've seen in ages and was a fitting end to one of the greatest shows ever made.

People were moaning about this why?

For me the last season, while having it's moments, felt too much like ticking the boxes to wrap it up. And came across as rushed because of that.

I certainly enjoyed it, but it just didn't seem to be in the place as the previous seasons.

Note: George RR Martin has confirmed they jumped to the end of the story, missing out what he suggested was at least a couple more seasons of material to get there.

[MinionZombie]

Just finished of GoT. Thought the last series was pretty great over all, and included some of the best tele I've seen in ages and was a fitting end to one of the greatest shows ever made.

People were moaning about this why?

Colour me pleasantly surprised - a positive review from Shoot! ;) :thumbsup:

Seriously though, I agree - the amount of fuss kicked up about Season 8 was just pathetic. There's one or two things that could have been improved on a bit, but other than that it was dandy.


For me the last season, while having it's moments, felt too much like ticking the boxes to wrap it up. And came across as rushed because of that.

I certainly enjoyed it, but it just didn't seem to be in the place as the previous seasons.

Note: George RR Martin has confirmed they jumped to the end of the story, missing out what he suggested was at least a couple more seasons of material to get there.

You may be reading a bit too much into that, perhaps. The problem is the books are so vast in scale - especially with characters - that you just couldn't fit all that into a show. They already trimmed down the characters for the benefit of the show, but then even that trimmed down list got a bit too large for TV. It was interesting to watch that making of documentary afterwards and note that the production crew stated that they had found the limit of what was practically possible.

I don't think enough people look at Season 8 as what it is - the climax of GoT's 3rd act, which also includes season 7. If you think about the whole of GoT as a film, those last two seasons are the third act, and that's where the payoff happens. So of course the final season is going to be filled with wrapping things up - because it's the final season, because it's having to finish everyone's story, because it's the end and not the beginning or the middle.

Few complained about season 7 being rushed, and yet season 8 - while one episode shorter - is actually just as long (if not a bit longer) in terms of running time. I find it a bit odd when people call it "rushed" when the first two episodes are pure talking (and were very highly reviewed), episode four is mostly talking, and episode six is again mostly talking. :D

The backlash became a media narrative and the "cool" thing to do, it was so wearily predictable as we saw the narrative unfold and gain traction. Pathetic.

[bassman]

^

Totally agree with your final sentence. Every so often, something popular will get tossed onto the bandwagon hate, and the last season of GOT is the reigning champ for this year. There are definitely issues with the season, but it’s no more than any other season, and it’s certainly not worth these silly extremes like signing petitions to prevent Benioff and Weiss from future employment. :rolleyes:

[Neil]

Few complained about season 7 being rushed, and yet season 8 - while one episode shorter - is actually just as long (if not a bit longer) in terms of running time. I find it a bit odd when people call it "rushed" when the first two episodes are pure talking (and were very highly reviewed), episode four is mostly talking, and episode six is again mostly talking. :D

The backlash became a media narrative and the "cool" thing to do, it was so wearily predictable as we saw the narrative unfold and gain traction. Pathetic.

I can only go by what I viewed and felt form those last few episodes. And to me it just felt rushed and like they were just ticking boxes to end the series. I certainly enjoyed it, but some of it felt like it fell flat compared to previous seasons IMHO.

[shootemindehead]

For me the last season, while having it's moments, felt too much like ticking the boxes to wrap it up. And came across as rushed because of that.

That may have something to do with the fact that the 6 episodes were each an hour to an hour twenty minutes long. The battle at Winterfell is practically 60 minutes of people and dead things killing each other. It was bloody great. Likewise Daenerys napalming whatever her town is called was brilliant.

I think this "it felt rushed" business wouldn't exist if S8 hadn't been comprised of what was essentially double episodes.


Note: George RR Martin has confirmed they jumped to the end of the story, missing out what he suggested was at least a couple more seasons of material to get there.

But they've been jumping ahead for the entire series and leaving out a lot of what was on his books if I recall correctly. Never read one, so don't know.

- - - Updated - - -


Colour me pleasantly surprised - a positive review from Shoot! ;) :thumbsup:

When something is good, it gets a positive review. The trouble is, the good stuff is few and far between these days.


Seriously though, I agree - the amount of fuss kicked up about Season 8 was just pathetic. There's one or two things that could have been improved on a bit, but other than that it was dandy.

I had vaguely heard that S8 was "crap" and left it at that. But, watching 8, I was waiting for the "crap" to begin. And it didn't.

Natch, I hit the interweb after bidding farewell to Jon Snow and what I saw presented as "evidence" of the "crap" was just a load of old bollocks. People moaning about Daenerys' breakdown and "sudden" turn into a psycho were clearly not paying attention to her actions earlier in the show, where she's exhibited an unrelenting desire for power at any cost and a severe psychopathy in pursuing that. She has been only interested in people "bending the knee" and placing her arse on the Iron Throne since series 3 or something, so her losing her shit and going all Vietnam on Cersei's gaff made perfect sense to me. In fact, it would have been awful if she'd got to King's Landing (I finally remembered the flippin name of the place) and was all kindly and benevolent. Especially after Cersei, who she'd just met, had sliced the head off of one of her closest confidants and friends.

Likewise, there were clowns whining about the fact that it was Arya that killed the Night King and not Jon Snow. Who bleedin cares who kills the bugger? And again, her story (one of the best in the show) has been leading up to that "assassin" moment for years now.

Others were saying it was "sexist" and "against women", although I'm at a loss to see where that is.

There's always something that can be improved upon, for sure, but over all I think they did a great job in ending the show and I didn't feel it was "rushed" or "anticlimactic" really. Maybe that's because, I followed up S7 with S8 pretty quickly and wasn't one of those that was waiting around for ages for it to be on the tele.


I don't think enough people look at Season 8 as what it is - the climax of GoT's 3rd act, which also includes season 7.

Few complained about season 7 being rushed, and yet season 8 - while one episode shorter - is actually just as long (if not a bit longer) in terms of running time. I find it a bit odd when people call it "rushed" when the first two episodes are pure talking (and were very highly reviewed), episode four is mostly talking, and episode six is again mostly talking. :D

I think if and when people watch S7 and S8 back to back (I think it's really just all S7 TBH), they won't feel that it's been "rushed". Combined, it's over twelve and a half hours of run time.

[MinionZombie]

Natch, I hit the interweb after bidding farewell to Jon Snow and what I saw presented as "evidence" of the "crap" was just a load of old bollocks. People moaning about Daenerys' breakdown and "sudden" turn into a psycho were clearly not paying attention to her actions earlier in the show, where she's exhibited an unrelenting desire for power at any cost and a severe psychopathy in pursuing that. She has been only interested in people "bending the knee" and placing her arse on the Iron Throne since series 3 or something, so her losing her shit and going all Vietnam on Cersei's gaff made perfect sense to me. In fact, it would have been awful if she'd got to King's Landing (I finally remembered the flippin name of the place) and was all kindly and benevolent. Especially after Cersei, who she'd just met, had sliced the head off of one of her closest confidants and friends.

Likewise, there were clowns whining about the fact that it was Arya that killed the Night King and not Jon Snow. Who bleedin cares who kills the bugger? And again, her story (one of the best in the show) has been leading up to that "assassin" moment for years now.

Some of the whining was premature, too. Moaning about how Jon didn't say goodbye to Ghost, for example - they were in fact holding back for a much more loving reunion between the pair an episode or two later! You can't have Jon kill everyone, so it has to be shared out. Arya needs to put her secret assassin skills to good use, and to have Jon be the one who kills Dany makes the most sense as it's the most powerful moment. Similarly, having Cersei - this powerful despot holed up in her high castle - stripped of all her power and security in minutes, left to scurry away desperately like a fleeing rat into the bowels of her kingdom only to be crushed under its falling spires was perfect.

Another element, I think, is that for quite a while Daenerys was trumpeted as this heroic, strong figure, with folks ignoring the danger signs along the way (there's bits going all the way back to season one for crying out loud - there was a great montage of 'Dany danger signs' on Sky Atlantic's "Thronecast" which followed the final episode - the hints or full blown warning lights flashing away have been there since the get-go). I'd been sniffing something rank underneath the surface strength with Dany for a long time, so it totally made sense for her to fulfil her genetic legacy of madness.

[shootemindehead]

Yeh. against my better judgement I spent more time looking at the complaints. I still haven't come across any valid arguments. Just feelings stated as facts.

This "rushed" business only seems to have stemmed from the point that Series 8 is only 6 episodes long. However, that's countered by the fact that Series 8 is still roughly the same running time as other GoT series, like Series 6. S6 is about 6 hours and 20 minutes and S8 is about the same. So that point holds no merit for me. people are just looking at the episode number and ignoring the actual amount of screen time on offer.

The Daenerys thing is equally empty because, as I said earlier, all the signs were there if you were paying attention. I can only imagine how worse the interweb meltdown would have been if she'd simply walked into Kings Landing peacefully? Because that is the immediate alternative.

And this nonsense about the writing being bad since S5 seems to only stem from the fact that the show outpaced the books by then. But, again, while I constantly see this statement repeated everywhere, I have yet to see it qualified by any kind of coherent follow up argument. To me the writing remained pretty good throughout the show.

On the whole, a lot of the criticism just seems to be people repeating stuff and not really backing it up with any data, which makes me wonder, was the show really THAT popular to begin with, or were there an awful lot of people just jumping on the bandwagon because it became a bit of a phenomenon, but they weren't really that enamoured with it at all?

I may have to look at S8 again, this time with the criticisms in my head and see if they make more sense. That little experiment can wait though.

On the whole, I thought it was one of the best TV shows of the modern era. It had its flaws though, such Jon Snow's fake death. That was absolute bollocks. But, besides that and a few other things here and there, it was very good indeed.

[Neil]

...the more I've looked at it, the more I dislike the final episode :(

Just comes across each time as more and more lazy/rushed :(

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[Neil]

BTW - Does anyone know if "Hold the door" (Hodor) was creative genius and forward plot planning, or just luck?

[MinionZombie]

BTW - Does anyone know if "Hold the door" (Hodor) was creative genius and forward plot planning, or just luck?

Not sure. Depends when/how/who came up with it. I assume it was already there from GRRM, and who knows, maybe he did intend to use it that way all along.

Or yeah, it could be something thought of a little later to explain why he's always saying "Hodor". Even if it was thought up later on, they managed to fit it in in a way that felt natural and revelatory, rather than just thumbed-in dry, you know?

You can't have everything planned out in advance, it's just not possible, you have to focus on what you're working on right now mainly for obvious reasons, but you might have certain things you specifically want to do in time or you have something that you have an idea of where it should lead and you'll get there eventually assuming you don't find yourself on a different path. Sometimes you might find an opportunity for something that feels right. I wouldn't call that "luck" necessarily, as the groundworks are there for it. You've got to be alive to a possibility, which isn't as easy as you might think. When writing you sometimes get into a 'can't see the wood for the trees' situation, so you could miss a cracking little juicy opportunity, but you could also happen upon it and really see it and not just walk on by as you try and wrestle all the other story threads and characters into their positions.