Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 21

Thread: Minn. man says he 'fired more shots than I needed'

  1. #1
    Dead Mr. Clean's Avatar
    Member

    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    765
    United States

    Minn. man says he 'fired more shots than I needed'

    LITTLE FALLS, Minn. (AP) — A Minnesota man charged with murder in the shootings of two teenagers he said broke into his home told investigators he was angered by one of the wounded teens who mocked him when his rifle jammed but that he fired more shots than necessary.

    "If you're trying to shoot somebody and they laugh at you, you go again," Byron David Smith, 64, of Little Falls, told investigators, according to a criminal complaint filed Monday.

    Smith was charged with two counts of second-degree murder in the deaths of Haile Kifer, 18, and her cousin, Nicholas Schaeffel, 17, both of Little Falls. The teens were shot on Thanksgiving Day, but their deaths weren't reported until Friday.

    In the complaint, Smith said he was in the basement of his remote home about 10 miles southwest of Little Falls when he heard a window breaking upstairs, followed by footsteps that eventually approached the basement stairwell. Fearful after several break-ins, according to the complaint, Smith said he fired when Schaeffel came into view from the waist down.

    After the teen fell down the stairs, Smith said he shot him in the face as he lay on the floor.
    "I want him dead," the complaint quoted Smith telling an investigator.

    Smith said he dragged Schaeffel's body into his basement workshop, then sat back down on his chair, and after a few minutes Kifer began coming down the stairs. He said he shot her as soon as her hips appeared, and she fell down the steps.

    Smith said he tried to shoot her again with his Mini 14 rifle, but that the gun jammed and Kifer laughed at him.

    "Smith stated that it was not a very long laugh because she was already hurting," according to the complaint.

    Smith said he then shot Kifer in the chest several times with a .22-caliber revolver, dragged her next to Schaeffel, and with her still gasping for air, fired a shot under her chin "up into the cranium."

    "Smith described it as 'a good clean finishing shot,'" according to the compliant, but also that he acknowledged he had fired "more shots than (he) needed to."
    The following day he asked a neighbor to recommend a good lawyer, according to the complaint. He later asked his neighbor to call the police.

    A prosecutor called Smith's reaction "appalling."

    "Mr. Smith intentionally killed two teenagers in his home in a matter that goes well beyond self-defense," Morrison County Attorney Brian Middendorf said after Smith appeared at Morrison County District Court on Monday morning. Bail was set at $2 million.

    Defense attorney Gregory Larson declined comment.

    Minnesota law allows a homeowner to use deadly force on an intruder if a reasonable person would fear they're in danger of harm. Smith told investigators he was afraid the intruders might have a weapon.

    Smith's actions "sound like an execution" rather than legitimate self-defense, said David Pecchia, executive director of the Minnesota Chiefs of Police Association.

    Pecchia said his statements to investigators suggest he had eliminated any threat to his safety by wounding the cousins.

    Smith's brother, Bruce Smith, told the Star Tribune of Minneapolis that the incident was the eighth burglary at Byron Smith's home in recent years.

    The only report the Morrison County sheriff's office has for a break-in at the home was for one on Oct. 27. It shows Byron Smith reported losing cash and gold coins worth $9,200, plus two guns worth $200 each, photo equipment worth over $3,000 and a ring worth $300.


    Little Falls is about 100 miles northwest of Minneapolis.

    Schaeffel's sister, Crystal Schaeffel, told the Star Tribune that Kifer had broken into her home before. Little Falls police records show Crystal Schaeffel reported a theft Aug. 28, but the department said the report was not public because that investigation was continuing and because it named juveniles.

    Bruce Smith declined to talk to an Associated Press reporter Monday outside his brother's home in a secluded area north of Little Falls and near the Mississippi River. A makeshift barricade blocked the driveway and a board leaning against it bore the spray-painted words "Keep Out."

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...usins/1727455/
    The guy sounds like a psychopath to me anyways but damn.....kill intruders and then wait a day to report the incident? Maybe he has got some sort of dementia.

  2. #2
    Webmaster Neil's Avatar
    Administrator

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    nr London
    Posts
    16,335
    England
    Messy case!
    Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there--on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam. [click for more]
    -Carl Sagan

  3. #3
    Feeding LouCipherr's Avatar
    Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Hell
    Posts
    4,029
    United States
    Wow. Just... wow. I mean, I'm all for defending yourself and your property, but I think this dude took it just a bit too far.

  4. #4
    Dead Purge's Avatar
    Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Age
    45
    Posts
    541
    Undisclosed
    I personally would've at least called the authorities right afterward. Aside from that, if you break into someone's home, you get what you get.

  5. #5
    Just Married AcesandEights's Avatar
    Super Moderator

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Mid-Hudson Valley, NY
    Posts
    7,479
    United States
    Sounds like one serious sociopath Rooster Cogburn m*utherf*cker.

    Quote Originally Posted by Purge View Post
    I personally would've at least called the authorities right afterward. Aside from that, if you break into someone's home, you get what you get.
    I agree, though the coup de grace was over the top and definitely grounds for charges.

    "Men choose as their prophets those who tell them that their hopes are true." --Lord Dunsany

  6. #6
    Feeding LouCipherr's Avatar
    Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Hell
    Posts
    4,029
    United States
    So I was reading this link: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...nksgiving.html

    ...and I was astonished by the stupidity of this statement in the article:

    "While Minnesota law stipulates people are allowed to use deadly force when defending their homes, relatives, friends, police and prosecutors claimed Smith reacted too drastically by killing them."



    Am I the only one who sees the contradiction in the above statement? You can use DEADLY FORCE when defending your home in Minnesota, but everyone says this guy overreacted by "killing them" - isn't that the exact definition of DEADLY FORCE?!

    Doesn't change the fact that if he had already immobilized them, there was zero reason to kill them. Shoot 'em in the kneecaps, then call the cops. Pretty simple. This dude just took it one step further when it didn't need to be. If you've already stopped the subject in their tracks, you deserve to be charged if you walk up and put a bullet in their heads when they are no longer a threat.

    This guy is an idiot.

  7. #7
    Feeding shootemindehead's Avatar
    Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Dublin
    Posts
    4,077
    Ireland
    I think what the article is trying to say, Lou, is that deadly force can be used, but killing with intent is a cause to draw the line.

    In other words Smith already used "deadly force" when he shot the girl in the abdomen first. But, he "killed" her by then put more rounds into her chest and one through her head.
    I'm runnin' this monkey farm now Frankenstein.....

  8. #8
    Twitching Cykotic's Avatar
    Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Gospel Oak/Chalk Farm (around that area), Camden, London
    Age
    40
    Posts
    960
    UK
    I fully agree that a person has the right to defend their home using whatever means necessary, but that guy sounded just a little unbalanced... actually, a lot unbalanced.

  9. #9
    Dead Mr. Clean's Avatar
    Member

    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    765
    United States
    In military and law enforcement....Deadly Force is "That force which a person uses with the purpose of causing or which he or she knows or should know creates a substantial risk of causing death or serious bodily harm."

    Now with that said....If someone is a threat and you shoot them in the chest and they fall to the floor incapacitated. They are no longer a threat at that point. Deadly Force does not authorize executions to make sure they are dead. Just because someone is still breathing....doesn't mean they are still a threat....Make Sense?

    There was a case a while ago about 2 teenage thugs attempting to rob a pharmacy. The pharmacist behind the counter pulled out a gun and shot one of the kids then chased the other kid out the door. The pharmacist came back inside and plugged the kid on the floor 5 more times. The pharmacist now has a life prison sentence or so last I seen. It is arguable that emotional and situtational stress made the man succumb to poor judgement or cloud his thought process but he was wrong for performing the execution on the incapacitated dirtbag. I personally think it's great that he did the tax payers a favor but do see the wrong in it.

    With this Minnesota guy....He performed 2 executions and then waited a day to report to police.....He is a shoe in for a life prison sentence if the prosecution attorney doesn't foul up the case like Florida did with Casey Anthony....I really don't see any possible way they can. His best chance at washing his hands of this was to get rid of the bodies and bleach the shit out of everything not to mention "accidently" burn down his house but that train already left.

  10. #10
    Feeding LouCipherr's Avatar
    Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Hell
    Posts
    4,029
    United States
    Quote Originally Posted by shootemindehead View Post
    I think what the article is trying to say, Lou, is that deadly force can be used, but killing with intent is a cause to draw the line.

    In other words Smith already used "deadly force" when he shot the girl in the abdomen first. But, he "killed" her by then put more rounds into her chest and one through her head.
    Oh, I know what they 'meant' by it, but the way they worded it made me wonder if they even re-read what they typed.

  11. #11
    Feeding shootemindehead's Avatar
    Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Dublin
    Posts
    4,077
    Ireland
    Aye, it looks a bit odd alright.
    I'm runnin' this monkey farm now Frankenstein.....

  12. #12
    Feeding LouCipherr's Avatar
    Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Hell
    Posts
    4,029
    United States
    Quote Originally Posted by shootemindehead View Post
    Aye, it looks a bit odd alright.


    I have a habit of over nit-picking printed stuff and things of that nature. It doesn't help I'm in the Quality Assurance field as my career. It tends to make me over-analyze things I shouldn't, but when something gets that ingrained into you brain, it's sorta hard to shut it off.
    Last edited by LouCipherr; 29-Nov-2012 at 07:26 PM. Reason: .

  13. #13
    Just Married AcesandEights's Avatar
    Super Moderator

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Mid-Hudson Valley, NY
    Posts
    7,479
    United States
    Quote Originally Posted by LouCipherr View Post


    I have a habit of over nit-picking
    Oh, we're well aware!




    Teasing someone for being nitpicky other than Shootem in a thread Shootem posts in...

     
    Priceless!

    "Men choose as their prophets those who tell them that their hopes are true." --Lord Dunsany

  14. #14
    Feeding LouCipherr's Avatar
    Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Hell
    Posts
    4,029
    United States
    Quote Originally Posted by AcesandEights View Post
    Oh, we're well aware!
    *hangs head in shame*

    See? I shame myself all the time (and not just by watching shitty movies!).
    Last edited by LouCipherr; 29-Nov-2012 at 08:19 PM. Reason: .

  15. #15
    HpotD Curry Champion krakenslayer's Avatar
    Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Scotland
    Age
    40
    Posts
    2,657
    Scotland
    Don't expect quality in any way, shape or form from the British Daily Mail (or Daily Express or Daily Telegraph). It (they) is (are) a reactionary populist/sheltered-upper-middle-class arse rag(s).

    Anyway, what that guy did was cold-blooded murder. Simple as that. Every one of his actions reads like it's always been his greatest wish to kill someone (sans consequences) for a long time, and when those people broke into his house he thought his dream had come true. Either that or he's completely senile and has no grasp of what "self-defense" actually means.

    And I'm not just talking about the head-shots. Shooting a girl in the gut without so much as a warning, before she has even seen you, is a cowardly act too, IMO, on a par with shooting a man in the back. If your life is in direct and immediate danger and it's a you-or-them situation, of course you have every right to take whatever steps might be necessary to ensure your survival, and if you break into someone's home with the intention of harming the inhabitants, you are deliberately and knowingly placing yourself in danger. In a life-or-death situation, the life of the innocent party completely outweighs the value of the perpetrator's life, I completely agree. BUT you should at least have SOME reason to believe it IS a life-or-death situation first. A quick "freeze or I'll kill you" should clear up any doubt. Of course, you have to make some allowances for frightened old timers in the fear of the moment, but that doesn't seem to be the case here at all.

    People always say "OHHH ARNUDDER SCUMBAG LESS IN THI' WURLD, HURRDURRDURRR" in regards to these situations, and while there is an element of truth in that, I know plenty of people who shitty, often criminal things, in their younger days who have gone on to become successful, contributing members of society. Everyone deserves once chance, I reckon, even if it's only "you have three seconds before I take your face off".

    Your home is your castle, and all that, but it's not a private hunting reserve where you can just automatically murder everything that steps over the threshold, invited or not. Regardless of what the law might or might not say.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •