here we go again... runners?

[darth los]

i know the running zombie thing has been done to death. However, i don't think this particular instance has ever been discussed. Actually, it's not an instance, more like an account of what happened. Check it out: It happens in Notld 68' when ben is scouring the house for lumber in order to fortify the house. When he starts to take apart the dining room table he begins telling the story about beekman's diner and how he came to the house. The part i found very interesting was when he says: "When a big gasoline truck came screaming right across the road, there must have been 10-15 of those things chasing after it, grabbing, holding on. I didn't see them at first. I could just see that the truck was moving in a funny way. Those things were catching up to it.The truck went right across the road... it went right through the gaurdrail... it went right through a billboard, ripped over a gas pump and never stopped moving, by now it was like a moving bonfire`...." For the purposes of this discussion I'll stop there. Now when ben says "A big gasoline truck came screaming right across the road" i take that to mean that at the very least the truck was moving at a decent pace with atleast enough momentum to crash though the gaurdrail, through a billboard and over a gas pump. Now i'm not sure how fast that would have to be but it's surley faster that the romero zombie mythos says that zombie can move. What would that be 5 mph tops? He then continues, saying "10 - 15 of those things were chasing after it grabbing, holding on". He adds, "those things were catching up to it". Now if the truck was moving at a decent clip how could the gouls chase after it and actually gain ground on it if they were not moving faster than a brisk shamble, which by the way is supposedly impossible for them to do? One last point. Ben said after all the truck crashed through it never stopped moving. To me it would have to be going at significantly faster speeds than the zombies are supposedly capable of in order be able to plow through a gaurdrail, billboard and gas pump and still be moving. However, he never states if the was truck slowed down only a little by the barriers it crashed through or if it slowed down to a crawl. He only says the truck never stopped moving. But that still doesn't explain how the truck was screaming across the road and the zombies were able to catch up to it. Now this is only heresay from ben. In the heat of the moment so much is happening and people often recount things erroneously. Furthermore, we all know that eye witness accounts are the most unreliable form of testimony. For the sake of this discussion let's just assume that Ben's accounts of the events that transpired at beekman's were accurate. What do you guys think?

[capncnut]

We'll I'd certainly believe that they are capable of running and fast reflexes. Just look at the way Hinzman smashes that that car window in the beginning. He literally races towards the brick and pounds it against the glass at frightening speeds. He also 'ran' after the car too but only for a few seconds. Good point Darth.

[FoodFight]

Here's my take. The zombies in question, being in the vicinity of Beekmans, had recently dined at said establishment. Therefore, their glycogen-charged bodies were capable of short bursts of speed, as witnessed by Ben and Barbara. However, later in the story, Zombie blood sugar has dropped and the are lethargic ("They're so slow", quotes Barbara, Night '90). I rest my case.

[The Alive Man]

I don't know... their legs should be rotting. But not THAT fast, so here we go.

[Danny]

if they werent allready dead when night occured but killed by a zombie i should imagnie they would be "faster than the av-era-ge ghoul!".

[Deadman_Deluxe]

He then continues, saying "10 - 15 of those things were chasing after it grabbing, holding on". He adds, "those things were catching up to it". Now if the truck was moving at a decent clip how could the gouls chase after it and actually gain ground on it if they were not moving faster than a brisk shamble, which by the way is supposedly impossible for them to do? I always thought that rather than the zombies at the back, or to the rear, "catching up" with the moving vehicle, they were simply joined by more and more zombies coming in from both sides and in front (IE: from every angle) so rather than those behind catching up with the vehicle, the vehicle was swarmed by lots (hundreds?) of zombies from all angles ... slowing the vehicle down slightly and making it seem to the shell-shocked observer that the zombies were actually gaining ground on the truck.

[Adolf Kitler]

I always thought that rather than the zombies at the back, or to the rear, "catching up" with the moving vehicle, they were simply joined by more and more zombies coming in from both sides and in front (IE: from every angle) so rather than those behind catching up with the vehicle, the vehicle was swarmed by lots (hundreds?) of zombies from all angles ... slowing the vehicle down slightly and making it seem to the shell-shocked observer that the zombies were actually gaining ground on the truck. That makes sense.

[Philly_SWAT]

Funny thing, as I was reading your post, I knew the first thing I was going to say was something about him recalling the events inaccurately, then I got to the bottom and you put Now this is only heresay from ben. In the heat of the moment so much is happening and people often recount things erroneously. Furthermore, we all know that eye witness accounts are the most unreliable form of testimony. For the sake of this discussion let's just assume that Ben's accounts of the events that transpired at beekman's were accurate. Nice way to cut me off before I begin! To answer this question, also taking into account your caveat, I must answer two different ways, one in relation to the "real universe", and one in relation to the "GAR universe". REAL UNIVERSE - I have made variations of this comment before, but I feel I should say it again here. When they made NOTLD, everyone involved was an ametuer when it came to motion picture making, writing, etc. Many involved were familiar with filming things, but they were either short things like commericials, or fact based elements like sports documentaries, in either case there was no need for a "continuity" expert. When they made Night, they put a bunch of money together, gathered what friends they had with acting experience, and put together a movie as quick as they could in order to keep costs down. I think that the instances you speak of are more due to ...."lack of thinking about how they fit into GAR universe of rules (which really didnt even exist yet)" then anything else. GAR Universe - Now, to discuss this topic while assuming that Ben's account was in fact accurate...... When he says that the truck comes " screaming right across the road", what does this mean? How fast is screaming? 40 MPH? 30 MPH? Perhaps only 4 MPH, but here it is on fire, lighting up the Night sky, bad brakes perhaps (explaining the use of the word 'screaming') making a screaming noise, hard to say. So we dont know how fast it was actually moving. When Ben says "I could just see that the truck was moving in a funny way", why would the truck be moving in a funny way? What exactly does this mean? Was someone inside, or was in moving on its own? If it was moving on its own, how did this happen? Did the occupant just get out/get pulled out? If not, how was it moving anyway? Was the engine running, or was it just rolling? If it was rolling, maybe the ghouls just somehow got an out-of-gear truck to start rolling down a hill, which would lend credence to the idea that the truck wasnt moving that fast. In various movies I have seen set in the 60's billboards in small towns were often made of very weak wood, not made like today with huge telephone pole type stakes, but something low to the ground that a alow moving truck could easily break thru without losing much momentum. If the path that the truck was coming from was on a downhill slope, that slope could keep the movement of the truck going even as it hits things. The gaurdrill could also have been something put together more for looks than security, and might not even slow down the truck as it hit. We dont know since we didnt see the scene, but it does fit into the explanation as to how could Ben's story be true while still keeping with the non-running zombie idea. As far as the gas pump, did you see the one at the farmhouse? Didnt seem incredibly sturdy to me, a slow moving truck might have been able to plow over it and still keep moving. Keep in mind too, when Ben says ir was a "gasoline truck" to me that means a big, heavy truck, full of heavy gasoline. The weight of the vehicle would help the momentum keep going, more so than say if it were a VW Bug. The truck may have been parked up an incline, the driver was tired and hungry, so he forgot to put on the emergency brake. He walks down to eat at Beekmans diner, perhaps not even closing the door good. Ghouls pull the still ajar door open, hit the gear into neutral, the truck slowly starts to roll downhill, goes thru rail, sign, over gas pump, etc. The whole thing hinges on the fact of Ben using the word "screaming", that word is open to interpretation. Also, if the truck was moving fairly slow to begin with, but its heavy weight kept it moving even thru the billboard, rail, etc, it could have still slowed down some as it hit these items, changing its speed from 8 MPH to 4 MPH, thus allowing the 5 MPH ghouls to catch up.

[coma]

Too much to quote but how about The truck was in first gear. A big block truck in 1st is LOUD and could be described as screaming. If the driver had his throat ripped out, he's not actually driving and the truck would lurch erratically. A driver still inside would be a reason for the persuit.

[DEAD BEAT]

maybe those zombies in question were running away from a Zack Snyder picture!

[Cereval]

Um ... everything that Philly_Swat said, plus ... It would seem that using NOTLD '68 as referential material for the saga often runs into these little holes in what we consider the "rules". It should be taken into consideration that, as George has explained, the initial conception of this was taken from his short story. I don't think it was intended to be a mythology or epic upon which more stories would be based, using the template set in the film. Had this been the original idea, I think the rules set out would have been strict enough to pay attention to small continuity details like Hinzman using some kind of thought to pick up a rock and his overall speed. This being said, I don't think these incidental observations, including Ben's story, necessarily validates running zombies.

[BUTCHYPIE]

I think Cereval has it right, except I would include the other films in the problem: the mythology has some small holes in it. These movies were made so far apart, that it's no wonder the zombies don't perfectly adhere to any one particular set of rules, especially NOTLD68. I guess in some ways, that makes it fun for us; we're trying to figure out the rules by extrapolation. By the way, thanks darth los for the keen observation and argument. Well done! To me, it's important to know what the writers and filmmakers think about such things. I posted this before, but in case someone hasn't seen it before, here's a short video of George himself commenting on what he thinks about slow vs fast zombies. http://one.revver.com/watch/59232/fo...affiliate/2554

[HLS]

i would say fresh zombies could be fast but as they age and rot tthey grow sluggish

[darth los]

[Skippy911sc]

I think that we see several examples of the Zs in GARs movies moving in a fast paced manner...running, not so much but think back to Dawn when Roger, Peter and Fly Boy are running through the store and one of the Zs grabs Roger...very swift very fast hes standing there then pow (for dramatic purposes I'm sure) there are several instances like thin...the kids running after Peter in the Airport. Lets all watch the movies again...I know I know...more homework.