if I fall off the face of the earth....

[Tied2thetracks]

Its a government conspiracy. I sent this fan leter to W today. Campean and Ramos, let them go. They shot a drug dealer in his ass, they should have shot him in the head. Maybe they will get him on his next drug run.You continue to encourage drug trade and depessing the Aremican workers wages.How many millions it will take to make you happy? You are not doing the will of the American people. You need to take another look at your job description. Why aren't we enforcing immigration laws already on the books? Bush might be gunning for me.

[darth los]

Its a government conspiracy. I sent this fan leter to W today. Bush might be gunning for me. This might be a self fulfilling prophecy. I think there's still room in gitmo...

[Tied2thetracks]

This might be a self fulfilling prophecy. I think there's still room in gitmo... Probally, I think they cleared most everyone else out. As long as I get my sanatized copy of the quran free of infidel germs I'll be fine. 3 hots and a cot.

[Wooley]

The man's approval rating is what, 14% He isn't listening to anyone besides Karl Rove, Dick Cheney and his collection of singing potatoes. He'll say "Let them eat cake" here shortly, he's that out of touch with what the people want.

[Tied2thetracks]

The man's approval rating is what, 14% He isn't listening to anyone besides Karl Rove, Dick Cheney and his collection of singing potatoes. He'll say "Let them eat cake" here shortly, he's that out of touch with what the people want. OK GW's approval rating walked into a bar and ordered a drink, the bartender said I can't serve you, you are under 21.

[DVW5150]

Aremican? Where is that? Uranus? What makes anybody think W is going to read a letter from a citizen of this country, when he didnt even read the August 18th 2001, report titled, " Bin laden determined to attack targets in the United States"?

[Yojimbo]

Aremican? Where is that? Uranus? What makes anybody think W is going to read a letter from a citizen of this country, when he didnt even read the August 18th 2001, report titled, " Bin laden determined to attack targets in the United States"? Exactly. Which is lucky, considering that if they actually read it these days then Tied2thetracks might actually get tied up.

[darth los]

Two things are wrong with the way our gov't works: 1) The elected officials of this country work for the people and are supposed to do their will. Too many times they get into office and completely blow off what the people want. I thin they get power hungry and do things just because they can. There's a feeling in this country that the higher ups in gov't can do whatever they want and get away with it. It's not supposed to be that way. The problem is that there's no way to make them do what we want or remove them if they do a poor job once they're elected. 2) When one party exclusively controls the executive and legislative branches, an advantage the republicans have enjoyed until recently, There's no oversight and the party in control routinely rubberstamps the president's policies and no meaningful debate can take place on the congress floor because they won't even let it come to a vote. Viewpoints must be allowed expression even if it's only a miniscule part of the population or legislative body. Otherwise, how is that a democracy? Something has got to change.

[Yojimbo]

Two things are wrong with the way our gov't works: 1) The elected officials of this country work for the people and are supposed to do their will. Too many times they get into office and completely blow off what the people want. I thin they get power hungry and do things just because they can. There's a feeling in this country that the higher ups in gov't can do whatever they want and get away with it. It's not supposed to be that way. The problem is that there's no way to make them do what we want or remove them if they do a poor job once they're elected. 2) When one party exclusively controls the executive and legislative branches, an advantage the republicans have enjoyed until recently, There's no oversight and the party in control routinely rubberstamps the president's policies and no meaningful debate can take place on the congress floor because they won't even let it come to a vote. Viewpoints must be allowed expression even if it's only a miniscule part of the population or legislative body. Otherwise, how is that a democracy? Something has got to change. Well put Darth, and I am in total agreement. I am increasingly disturbed by the erosion of our constitutional rights under the guise of protecting us. I feel as if we are a nation of citizens are being treated like children. Tales mothers tell their children about how the boogeyman takes away kids that don't listen to their parents comes to mind. It is my hope that this is just a temporary affliction, and that things will normalize and balance out soon. I am reminded of the day the twin towers came down. I happened to be on my honeymoon and was sitting in a plush hotel suite with my wife, riveted to the television coverage, shaving cream still all over my face from being called into the room by my wife while I had been standing over the bathroom wash basin. As we watched the smoke fill the skies of new york, I turned to my wife and remarked that this would cause our nation to fly into outrage and that we were at the birth of a new era of nationalistic patriotism that would be spawned by this attack, and my wife pointed out the the Nazis were a very patriotic group too. I felt then at that moment, and still do in moments of recollection, a chill run down my spine.

[darth los]

It's funny that we're discussing this today. The lines in my sig, which i put there today reflect pretty much what we're talking about. This is not totally unprecedented in our history. In fact it's rather tame compared to the other atrocities our country has commtted against it's citizens in times of war/fear. The red scare of the 1920's comes to mind. When the U.S. gov't put all japanese citizens in internment camps in the name of "national security" even though we were at war with germany and italy, "white countries" , but the same wasn't done to those ethnic groups. This was a blatant case of xenophobia. Finally, The rise of "McCarthyism in the 50's. This marked the first time that our legal system actually tried and convicted american citizens based soley on their beliefs. Those were scary times driven by fear and the countries desire to for the perception of security at the high cost of our civil rights and god given freedoms. Hopefully we are not on the same track and have learned from this country's past mistakes. And for all those who condone this administartions tactics and rationalize it by saying that we have to keep ourselves safe at any cost i say, "They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." Now how is anyone going to argue with "BIG" Ben Franklin? It's a self defeating proposition.

[coma]

When the U.S. gov't put all japanese citizens in internment camps in the name of "national security" even though we were at war with germany and italy, "white countries" , but the same wasn't done to those ethnic groups. This was a blatant case of xenophobia. Not entirely accurate. Japanese born and Japanese Americans on the West coast ONLY were interred. And Some German Nationals on the east coast were also rounded up, but that was in the hundreds. not thousands. The weird thing about the Japanese interment was that you could be a 3rd generation Japanese and not speak a word of the Japanese language and still be interred. Finally, The rise of "McCarthyism in the 50's. This marked the first time that our legal system actually tried and convicted american citizens based soley on their beliefs.... ...Hopefully we are not on the same track and have learned from this country's past mistakes. The alien and sedition act of 1798 was a speech restriction on criticism of the government. Most, not all of it, got thrown out. The part that stayed was immigration restrictions. There has been numerous periods of repression in American history and this is just another one. he sad thing is that we havent learned. At the start of this current wave no one would listen to those who so it coming as the ubernationalists heaped scorn and persecution upon them. Now most people see it (the erosion of liberty) but many would not. Even on this board, less than a year ago even, there would be 10 different members replying to a post like this calling the critics of this situation traitors and terrorist lovers.

[darth los]

Not entirely accurate. Japanese born and Japanese Americans on the West coast ONLY were interred. And Some German Nationals on the east coast were also rounded up, but that was in the hundreds. not thousands. The weird thing about the Japanese interment was that you could be a 3rd generation Japanese and not speak a word of the Japanese language and still be interred. The alien and sedition act of 1798 was a speech restriction on criticism of the government. Most, not all of it, got thrown out. The part that stayed was immigration restrictions. Well thank goodness that we're in a more tolerant phase on the forums now. I remember the period you're talking about and discussions such as this and religion were radioactive. I wouldn't even get involved because i just didn't want problems with people who even when presented with incontravertable facts still refuse to relent their points. You're right on the interment point. I should have been more specific. On the point of the sedition act, many things went on in the early years of our country regarding federalism and the respective powers of the 3 branches of gov't pertaining to exactly how far they could push their powers, so it doesn't surprise me that they would try to pull something like that. For example, in 1798 it wasn't even established that the U.S. constitution was the the supreme law of the land nor that the supreme court could issue writs of mandamus, effectively binding the other 2 branches to it's descisions. That precedent was set in 1803 in Marbury v. Madison. However by the time the 1950's rolled around there was no excuse for trying and convicting u.s. citizens for their political afiliations.

[Yojimbo]

On the issue of the Japanese internment during WWII, it is correct that there were Germans and Italian immigrants that were likewise interred, but as pointed out they were not interred in anywhere near the same numbers, and I do not believe that they order to inter citizens came through to fruission, but rather just those who were either German or Italian nationals. Still, though, all those interred, like the Japanese, were interred based soley on their race. In the case of the Japanese Americans their internment was later suscesfully argued in court as unconstitutional and demonstrated to be product of xenephobia rather than having arisen out of need. I don't know that a similar suit was ever pursued for the Germans or Italians, but I think it would be a viable case and one that should have been pursued, if not for reparations then for the principle of justice. Sadly, when 9/11 happened I heard some mumbling about interring middle eastern people for the protection of the US. This did not come to pass (thankfully) but it bothers me that so many citizens belied that this option was morally viable. Indeed, I personally have run into people who to this day still defend the internment of the Japanese as having been acceptable and maintain that the US government was completely justified, still believing the government's rhetoric from that era when the government publically cited numerous incidents of espionage and sabotage by the Japanese-- later to be shown to be totally unwarranted and untrue -- as the basis for the need for internment at that time. Since that time, documents have been released showing that the internment was purely a figment of racial bias, and based on nothing else. Not that I am saying that I am totally against racial profiling, although that is a bee's nest waiting to be stumbled into, and I understand that there are actual incidents of sleeper cell-type individuals who want to commit mayhem in the name of their cause, however there are places for people like that (Guantanamo) and no place in our society for indiscriminant incarceration based soley of the race or national origin of people. I do note that most recently the government has received approval for warrantless wiretapping and monitoring of all intercontinental e-mail and telephone calls. Talk about erosion of our freedom and privacy! Where is the anger of the people?

[darth los]

Sadly, when 9/11 happened I heard some mumbling about interring middle eastern people for the protection of the US. This did not come to pass (thankfully) but it bothers me that so many citizens belied that this option was morally viable. Indeed, I personally have run into people who to this day still defend the internment of the Japanese as having been acceptable and maintain that the US government was completely justified, still believing the government's rhetoric from that era when the government publically cited numerous incidents of espionage and sabotage by the Japanese-- later to be shown to be totally unwarranted and untrue -- as the basis for the need for internment at that time. Since that time, documents have been released showing that the internment was purely a figment of racial bias, and based on nothing else. Yeah, it's too bad that the apology took 50 years. The whole reason behind the interment of the japanese was given in the supreme court case Korematsu v. United states. The court held that the legislative branch granted the military power to basically do anything they had to in the name of national security. They thought that there were many japanese americans who were not loyal to the u.s. and still had loyalties to japan. The problem was they could not identify who these people were quickly enough so they just took everyone. If the wartime mentality of WW2 of doing anything that's nescesary by violating it's citizens civil rights and justifying it by saying that the current laws just don't let the gov't do it's job so it disregards them isn't eerily similar to this administation's rationale of current policy i don't know what is.

[MissJacksonCA]

I think they're just gonna make sure they tap your phone lines and read your mail before you get it and put you under the 'rubber glove treatment' list at the airports...